Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society • Hacker News Board

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#121

Post by ravenstine » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:38 PM UTC

Xcelerate wrote: post #55

> Minimalism is tiny houses, floor-to-ceiling glass condos I always see this criticism and don’t understand it. I’ve been going on ever since I was a 10 year old kid in the 90s (well before “minimalism” was trendy) about how one day I wanted a tiny, well-designed house with giant floor-to-ceiling glass windows. I think it’s natural to enjoy sunlight, so I’m not sure what the article is suggesting—that people should w…

I don't even see how those two things are even the same. They're both minimalism in name only. A tiny house and a glass condo are both fueled by completely different motivations and the ends are also totally different. As you noted, one could intentionally incorporate large glass windows into a tiny house for totally valid reasons, but the article is comparing the generality of a tiny house with condos that wealthy people buy for aesthetics, but they just aren't comparable.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#122

Post by nixpulvis » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:39 PM UTC

coverup wrote: post #91

nixpulvis wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Minimalistic dance music (MDM) sounds like exactly what I'm missing in my life. I mean I have a bit already, but sometimes it gets to poppy. Just gotta tug on the right notes, ignore the rest. Mix it up, but only when you need to. Don't overthink it, yet spend the time needed to make it juuuust right. As Mark Twain famously said: “I didn't have time to write a short letter, so I wrote a long one instead.” P.S. `less`…

Minimal techno had a big moment in EDM circles in the '00s as the bombastic productions of the '90s started to be seen as cheesy and overcooked. See for example: https://youtu.be/daSid6Lh9Vs

I'm personally more of a fan of things like OG DJ Distance for minimalism.

this track hits me where it feels: https://youtu.be/3AT8szyLD0k

Turns out, two "movements" (repeated?), and little bit of variation is enough to dance to, and generally make for a pretty good song.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#123

Post by danlugo92 » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:40 PM UTC

nicbou wrote: post #46

DubiousPusher wrote: post #4

Two ideas which often I encounter together yet I have grown to find incompatible are self reliance and minimalism. If you wish to become more self reliant i.e. more able to handle for yourself rather than through another's labor the impositions you create in the world, you will find yourself needing to masters, access and eventual own many more tools and material. My father, a man capable of building or repairing alm…

That's a point that keeps coming back in minimalist and travel communities. People brag about how little they own, and it looks perfect until you ask about the logistics of it. You quickly find out that their minimalist existence is often propped by cheap third-world labour, or by a complete lack of financial planning. They don't own any of the tooks they need to fend for themselves. In a sense, their lifestyle is on…

>You quickly find out that their minimalist existence is often propped by cheap third-world labour, or by a complete lack of financial planning

I don't get it. What are you talking about?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#124

Post by ravenstine » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:41 PM UTC

JackPoach wrote: post #77

As COVID-19 hits, people understand Taleb's idea about critical importance of multiple redundancies. These are clearly incompatible with minimalism. To be alive is more important than to be a minimalist in the end.

I don't see how that's the case. If multiple redundancies are a necessity, then having them doesn't go against the minimalist lifestyle. Minimalism doesn't mean that you stick to only have one of everything, although it can mean that to an individual minimalist depending on their goals, perhaps such as traveling light. There's no definition of minimalism that says you should have an insufficient supply of anything.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#125

Post by dageshi » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:43 PM UTC

ses1984 wrote: post #107

dageshi wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... You order takeaway. Or you buy ready meals from the store. Or you go to subway. There's plenty of alternatives to actually cooking.

Yeah, it's funny, ordering takeaway all the time is also one of the plenty of alternatives to lighting money on fire.

You can say that about literally everything you don't do yourself.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#126

Post by ctdonath » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

chii wrote: post #96

ctdonath wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

having a lawn service means not needing a mower. Hiring out a painting service means not having old buckets, brushes, tarps, etc, laying around. Minimalism means not having a lawn which needs mowing, nor walls in need of painting.

so you live in a cardbox box near a creek for running water?

Aspiring to unpainted log cabin, surrounded by un-maintained forest or field, water filtered from steam or lake.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#127

Post by veggieburglar » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:44 PM UTC

As a minimalist, if you’re stressing out about whether you own too many things, you’re missing the point entirely. Does that bring you right to the same place as a maximalist- do I have enough?/do I have too much?

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#128

Post by scooble » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:47 PM UTC

samirillian wrote: post #93

There's another way of looking at this, which is minimalism as symptom rather than cause. Most millenials, even the upper-middle class ones, see a future with less material prospects than their parents had. I do not believe that minimalism is fundamentally a cultural phenomenon driven by the wealthy, but by the impoverished. You can say that Marie Kondo and Bauhaus have some subterranean aesthetic connection, but I t…

In a cynical moment it has struck me that recent lifestyle trends seem almost designed to market poverty to the middle classes.

#vanlife as a lifestyle rather than simply 'living in your car'. A 'tiny house village' for people who don't want to say 'trailer park' etc.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#129

Post by smoe » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:50 PM UTC

ehnto wrote: post #102

smoe wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The reality is, if you wish to combine self reliance and minimalism, you essentially must embrace a life of poverty. Why? If you take minimalism to the extreme, and keep stripping away until reaching the bare essentials of living, then the basic tools and materials are what you left with. It would be "against" minimalism (which is not well defined anyway) to buy say a chain saw because you think you might need it o…

The missing pieces of the conversation are "How self reliant?" and "Self-reliant from what?" Are you trying to be a homesteader, entirely off-grid and not reliant on society? Or are you trying to be financially self-reliant, not relying on a paycheck? Or are you trying to be personally less reliant on things and items? These are all different ideas that get wrapped up into this conversation, and like the OP said, the…

While I agree that pieces are missing for a full conversation, I disagree with the simplification that minimalism is mainly about wanting to be less reliant on things or just having less for the sake of having less.

Minimalism is about having what is essential to a fulfill a certain need or goal. What is essential varies from person to person and of course is vastly different whatever we are talking about a software engineer living in a city apartment vs. a farmer.

So I see minimalism being about prioritization. During "normal" circumstances it is pretty much purely voluntary, but the more self reliant you want to be, the more it becomes a necessity. With limited resources you have to prioritize what tools, skills and materials you acquire in what order, quality and quantity. You end up with good enough, minimal solutions for a lot of the problems.

My farmer grand parents where 10x the minimalists I ever was in my view. But for them, it was just how they grew up, not a lifestyle choice about aesthetics.

Re: Minimalism conceals the messy realities of society

#130

Post by ravenstine » Sun, Apr 05, 2020, 2:53 PM UTC

UweSchmidt wrote: post #50

Minimalism is luxury. You know you could replace whatever you just threw out (which in turn is a way to declutter; mentally allocating money for a pair of pants to potentially replace the 3 pairs you're never wearing helps getting rid of those). You know you could go back to your parents after "selling everything and backpacking around the world). Instagram-minimalism additionally requires replacing and color-matchin…

Minimalism is only a luxury in the sense that some people really don't have a lot, possibly anything at all, in which case minimalism simply doesn't apply to them. That doesn't mean that minimalism is a luxury to the haves over the have-nots. To the vast majority of people, minimalism would be considered a burden.