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In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

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Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#121

Post by cmonnow »

ignoramous wrote: post #78
jagannathtech wrote: post #21

Truth: A sovereign country with a democratically elected govt with historic mandate, especially a developing country like India with history of innumerable islamic terrorist attacks originating from its neighbours, defending its borders from illegal migrants as per ruling party election manifesto. Woke 'intellectuals': fascism!!

Innumerable? Can you point me to stats of those claimed innumerable Islamist terrorist attacks? I'm willing to wager a bet that there have been more cow vigilante fatalities in the country than Islamic terrorism. Whilst we are it, I'd encourage you to read https://www.schneier.com/essays/archives/2006/08/refuse_to_b...

> I'm willing to wager a bet

I'd love to get the odds on this one.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_India

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#122

Post by cmonnow »

ignoramous wrote: post #54

I actively read r/india and there hasn't been a single day for the past two months now that horrendous reports of Police rioting, looting, and killing civilians (predominantly Muslims) come up but is never reported by the main-stream media. There have been numerous cases where the ruling political party has mobilised its pro-violence groups with a free-reign to do as they please. Never has a public personality been i…

r/india Mods insta-ban any pro-BJP/pro-India/pro-conservative commenters. Now, THAT is fascism.

Check out r/indiaspeaks where dissenting opinions are not banned.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#123

Post by xyz0 »

cmonnow wrote: post #122
ignoramous wrote: post #54

I actively read r/india and there hasn't been a single day for the past two months now that horrendous reports of Police rioting, looting, and killing civilians (predominantly Muslims) come up but is never reported by the main-stream media. There have been numerous cases where the ruling political party has mobilised its pro-violence groups with a free-reign to do as they please. Never has a public personality been i…

r/india Mods insta-ban any pro-BJP/pro-India/pro-conservative commenters. Now, THAT is fascism. Check out r/indiaspeaks where dissenting opinions are not banned.

Are you just jumping around this thread copy/pasting the same talking points?

For what it's worth, someone getting banned from the comments section of an online forum run by a for-profit company is not fascism – it's not in the same ballpark, not in the same league.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#124

Post by Balgair »

_jal wrote: post #75
wtmt wrote: post #5

> NC: One thing that’s happened is the press has been pretty much muzzled. They are very uncritical. This is a big issue with mass media in India that many don’t realize or want to realize. Between — a) most of the mainstream media houses (except a few) not asking tough questions (but supporting the government for everything), b) the Supreme Court ignoring important cases and not hearing them for years and c) the amo…

I am beginning to think that fascism is mostly a runaway media effect. 100 years ago it was the beginnings of mass-media being understood and incorporated into politics; now it is the internet. It seems like something akin to witchcraft crazes on a truly horrifying scale.

Ok, I like this idea!

The Malleus Maleficarum was a runaway 'hit' just after the printing press was invented. It's comically evil and while not fascism as we'd say it is today, damned if the methods of torture, psuedo-trial, and presumptions of guilt aren't mirrored in fascism (among others).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malleus_Maleficarum#Popularity...

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#125

Post by noarchy »

samiru wrote: post #90
noarchy wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Fascism is gaining in many parts of the world today. But the 'other' this time aren't Jews, they're Muslims. This calls to mind the recent debates over Bill 21 in Quebec, that banned religious symbols for many government employees. It was clear that it was motivated by anti-Islamic sentiment, but it was disguised as a move toward "secularism".

Are you sure? The motivation for this could be interpreted as pro-Islamic too, in the sense that old religious symbols (in this case Christian) are removed from public places as the proportion of muslims in the population grows. This is happening in Nordic countries and my feeling is that we are paradoxically moving away from secularism at this point.

>Are you sure? The motivation for this could be interpreted as pro-Islamic too, in the sense that old religious symbols (in this case Christian) are removed from public places as the proportion of muslims in the population grows.

Very sure.

Originally, the National Assembly was not going to remove the crucifix that had long been hanging in their chamber. Only after some uproar did they backpedal on this. More recently, the Premier of the province made the mistake of being caught suggesting that all French-Canadians are Catholic. This effectively exposes the lie that this was about secularism, rather than a bunch of white Catholics being afraid of a growing minority.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/catholic-quebec-cali...

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#126

Post by bzbarsky »

kbenson wrote: post #118
bzbarsky wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In Germany, with the largest Jewish population Uh... you mean if you ignore Poland, Romania, and the USSR? > they accounted for less than 1% of the populace From the same article you cited, it was 9.5% in Poland, 3.4% in the USSR (which had a larger population than Germany), 4% in Romania, 4.9% in Latvia, 7.6% in Lithuania, 5% in Hungary. The fraction of Jews in Poland, or the other countries I menioned, did nothin…

> From the same article you cited, it was 9.5% in Poland, 3.4% in the USSR (which had a larger population than Germany), 4% in Romania, 4.9% in Latvia, 7.6% in Lithuania, 5% in Hungary. Yes, I was mistakenly going from numbers presented for Western Europe. > The fraction of Jews in Poland, or the other countries I menioned, did nothing to prevent them being seen as "the other" there, if you read some contemporary acc…

I think the "everyone almost knows someone personally" thing _really_ depends on patterns of settlement. If the population is very segregated in terms of whether they live, work, etc (as was the case in Poland), that may well not work. Combined with visibly different modes of dress, different customs, different religion, and different language, the whole "the other" thing just wasn't a hard sell.

I agree with your point that mass murder by the millions requires something rather special, not least a combination of (1) feeling that you are not killing people and (2) industriousness that is fairly rare. Plenty of people in Europe in the 30s thought that Jews were worth killing if it wasn't too much work, but weren't quite going out of their way to do it the way the Nazis ended up doing.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#127

Post by cptaj »

puranjay wrote: post #25
vondur wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he really support the Chavez regime? That’s something I’d like to know.

He isn't some foreign affairs expert. He made the decision to support Chavez based on the information he (and we) had access to at that time, much of which painted Chavez favorably. We, of course, came to know later that the house was rotting on the inside. But that's just hindsight

Except he ignored the opinion of every single venezuelan.

He just sat on his couch, read some leftie newspapers he likes and decided about an entire foreign country.

Just another talking head clown having opinions with no basis in actual research or reality.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#128

Post by m0llusk »

Despegar wrote: post #32
kbenson wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such a large percentage of the population of not just the country in question in the article, but also the entire world, I'm not sure they can be seen to be "the other" to the same degree as the Jews were, given how common they are. In 1933, there were an estimated 15 million Jews worldwide[1], 9 million or so in Europe. In Germany, with the largest Jewish population, they accounted for less than 1% of the popul…

[flagged]

This is sloppy generalization. The US travel ban has never applied to India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, or Indonesia which host the largest Muslim populations.

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#129

Post by cptaj »

yongjik wrote: post #62
vondur wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did he really support the Chavez regime? That’s something I’d like to know.

Well, to be fair, many American right-wing politicians have supported worse, including Saddam Hussein and Saudi royalties. If we discredit political pundits based on who they sided with, the only people remaining would be total misanthropes. Or those who never said anything so far. Maybe that's for the better...

Maybe just discredit them when they say they support freedom from oppression when they actually support comically transparent dictators?

Re: In India What We Are Seeing Is the Symptoms of Fascism: Noam Chomsky

#130

Post by naresh_negi_kr »

> Karthik: Right. Maybe you can give some other examples in the world. But he was celebrated when he was administering the occupation of Kashmir. But the moment he criticized the BJPs occupation of Kashmir, the moment he criticized it as reducing Kashmir to a “vassal state”, he’s been in prison. > NC: In prison? > Karthik: Yes, in prison, without charges.

This news article (https://m.economictimes.com/news/politics-and-nation/inx-med...) and several others seem to indicate that the Central Bureau of Investigation has filed a charge-sheet and that Chidambaram is out on bail right now. The initial First Information/Incident Report was filed way back in May 2017.

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