Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property • Hacker News Board

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#121

Post by baddox » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 10:39 PM UTC

Reedx wrote: post #61

harikb wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it possible the social support structure, education, etc are creating a society where unfortunate people don't have to steal/pawn to make a living?

We tend to underestimate the effect culture can have. It's also why the Japanese don't litter their cities, despite few garbage bins. https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2017/07/why-japanese-dont-lit...

I wouldn't underestimate the effect of culture, I would just tend to assume that something about Japan has caused its culture, rather than culture itself being a primary cause of attitudes towards lost property. In other words, I wouldn't consider "it's just their culture to respect lost property" a useful explanation.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#122

Post by jshevek » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 10:41 PM UTC

makapuf wrote: post #71

rs999gti wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> discipline and culture Monoculture

Do you say that with a negative or positive tone ? It's hard to tell from your answer. And if so, why ?

I took it as an observation or speculation of cause and effect. There is no judgement (positive or negative) needed for this.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#123

Post by samatman » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 10:44 PM UTC

someone7x wrote: post #36

GuB-42 wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? That's the kind of question that makes up the entire field of game theory. In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. That's how natural selection works. But when people don't act like that, it means there must be some opposing force, normally one that benefits society. There is a lot to learn here, in fields as diverse as biology, economics, computing, and of course, games.

> In every situation, the most natural strategy is to maximize personal gains. The iterated prisoner's dilemma begs to differ. There are many many situations where cooperation is both natural and optimal.

The iterated prisoner's dilemma does no such thing, as it's scored by maximizing personal gains.

It does point to the advantages of not defecting on players who cooperate.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#124

Post by cookingrobot » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 10:58 PM UTC

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

I once found a wallet on the sidewalk outside a mall in Japan. I tried to drop it at the mall's lost and found, but the security guard there took me with him to a police box. The policeman there took me to the local police station, and we spent the next hour filling out a report. They were all very friendly and appreciative that I turned it in, but it was really quite an ordeal. If I were to find something valuable again, I might just leave it alone to avoid the hassle.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#125

Post by yorwba » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #102

swebs wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Ethnic groups: Japanese 98.1%, Chinese 0.5%, Korean 0.4%, other 1% (includes Filipino, Vietnamese, and Brazilian) https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/...

It's true that Japan has a lot more ethnic homogenity than most countries, but this is is a misleading statistic. The Japanese census considers all people with Japanese citizenship to be simply "Japanese" regardless of their race.

There have been 559,789 naturalizations total from 1952 to 2018: http://www.moj.go.jp/content/001180510.pdf

Many of those have probably died by now, but likely not without leaving a few descendants. So there may be a million or so Japanese citizens with a family background involving migration within the last few generations.

Ainu, Ryukyuans and Burakumin should probably also be counted as "non-homogeneous", even though they're not "foreign".

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#126

Post by omegaworks » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:03 PM UTC

nwienert wrote: post #74

omegaworks wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Immigration has been steadily increasing in Japan.[1] That homogeneity presupposes trust is a right-wing stereotype used to devalue immigrants in a society and justify harsh enforcement. You can find people of every ethnicity in Tokyo, including many half and full Brazilian people that you could mistake for latinos here in the US[2]. 1. https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2016/03/11/national/japan-... 2. https://en.wik…

Go to Japan. Immigration is absolutely nothing like European or American countries.

I have. I've been to Tokyo. When I said you can find people of every ethnicity, I meant I encountered people of every ethnicity.

1 in 10 residents of Tokyo are foreign nationals[1]. https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO32872510R10C18A7EA2000/

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#127

Post by yorwba » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:09 PM UTC

omegaworks wrote: post #126

nwienert wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go to Japan. Immigration is absolutely nothing like European or American countries.

I have. I've been to Tokyo. When I said you can find people of every ethnicity, I meant I encountered people of every ethnicity. 1 in 10 residents of Tokyo are foreign nationals[1]. https://www.nikkei.com/article/DGXMZO32872510R10C18A7EA2000/

> 東京都では20歳代の10人に1人が外国人だった。

1 in 10 people in their twenties. (Still more than I expected.)

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#128

Post by enahs-sf » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

Anecdotal evidence here: Went to Japan, was out in a crowded area after dinner. A woman's wallet fell out of her pocket as she walked along. Literally a crowd of people rushed to pick it up and give it back to her. Never seen anything like that. One of many strange phenomena observed on the streets of Tokyo at night.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#129

Post by kenhwang » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:14 PM UTC

jyounker wrote: post #84

jrsdav wrote: post #5

I experienced this while visiting Japan. While doing a transfer on the Shinkansen in Hiroshima, I left my camera bag at a noodle kiosk on the platform (around $3k worth of equipment). Didn't realize it until 2 hours after getting on the next train. When we arrived at our destination, I told my friend we were meeting (a Japanese native) what happened, and she reassured me that it would be right where I left it (said s…

On the other hand, the Japanese are inveterate umbrella thieves. So much so that you will find locking umbrella racks in many buildings. The pressure has to go somewhere.

They're pretty much communal when I visited Tokyo/Kyoto. Pretty much always left the building with a different umbrella than I entered with. Just about everyone uses the same $5-10 black/gray/white/clear umbrella. They all go into the umbrella bucket when you enter a building. Everyone just grabs one on their way out that's close enough to the same as the one the dropped in. Sometimes you leave a building and it's not raining anymore and people forget their umbrella behind. People even just leave them behind before getting on the train and take one from the stop where they get off.

Re: Why Japan is so successful at returning lost property

#130

Post by dba7dba » Wed, Jan 15, 2020, 11:20 PM UTC

dr_dshiv wrote: post #118

My first day in Japan I fell asleep on the train. I woke up to a train employee telling me to leave the train. I grabbed my bag and left in a daze, only to realize too late that I left my duffle bag on the top shelf. I reported it and was assured that it would be found. 2 weeks later they still hadn't found my bag but kindly told me that it must have been a Korean. Um. Well, that was 20 years ago. I'm sure things are…

I loled at that `must have been a Korean` comment.

History of Koreans in Japan has a complicated story. But basically ethnic Koreans are treated as a second class citizen in Japan.

A Korean-American friend told me this story. He worked with a Britain/Ireland born coworker who was working in US at the time. Blond, European. He traveled fair bit to Japan. He knew this guy was Korean-American and in a conversation he asked the Korean-American why Japanese didn't like Koreans.

The EU guy said when he visited Japan in 2000, Japanese told him they didn't like Koreans.

And than in 2005 or so, he heard from Japanese that they liked Koreans.

In what context the Japanese told a blond European guy why they liked or didn't like Koreans is unknown.

This EU born coworker was confused what changed in that 5 year period.