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E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

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Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#121

Post by The_Double »

retrovm wrote: post #10
nkingsy wrote: post #6

I ebike 20 miles for work every day and live it. I don’t use my ebike for small errands because it’s too easy to just rip expensive stuff off of it while locked up. Also, the picture shows a rider with no helmet which is insane. I wear a motorcycle helmet and leathers. The speed limit for ebikes on roads in CA is 28, which is deadly with even a normal bike helmet. Finally the article says that the new models are ligh…

Helmets are for sports. Ebikes have a ~50% market share in Belgium where approximately nobody wears a helmet ever. It's really not an issue.

As a dutchman who spend some time working and commuting in the SF bay area: Commuting on a bike without a bright yellow helmet and a combination of flashing lights that rival an emergency vehicle is basically suicidal behavior.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#122

Post by retrovm »

HanayamaTriplet wrote: post #119
retrovm wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please go find out the definition of "market share".

To add context to your downvotes, it is clear that the author you cite used "market share" in an unusual way (possibly due to a language barrier), since there are certainly more than ~503,000 bicycles in the whole country of Belgium.

Sure, if you don't know what the term "market share" means then your comment makes perfect sense.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#123

Post by derekp7 »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #35
retrovm wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Helmets are for sports. Ebikes have a ~50% market share in Belgium where approximately nobody wears a helmet ever. It's really not an issue.

Helmets are for any activity that has an impact risk to your head which includes cycling not just sports. I live in Austria where few cyclists wear helmets yet my girlfriend who works in the local hospital sees patients coming in with serious head injuries on a daily basis from biking accidents that could have easily been prevented by wearing a helmet. Since then we both wear our helmets religiously. You don't even h…

I think the biggest reason people don't see a bicycle helmet as necessary is from personal experience. I grew up on the 70's, long before kids helmets were in vogue. And I had several bicycle accidents.

Once I hit a curb, went over the handlebars, and skinned up my hands/knees and my wrists hurt pretty bad for a week or so after. Another time I wiped out at the bottom of a hill, tore a huge gash in the side of my knee. Then there was the time I chipped a tooth on a curb when trying to ride no-handed.

In all the falls I experienced, none of them involved a head injury that a helmet would have prevented (the chipped tooth incident could have been prevented by wearing a mouth guard, or by not being stupid). So based on that, it feels like helmets are useless.

Of course, in reality there is a huge difference between a kid riding a bicycle at single-digit MPH on neighborhood streets and back-woods trails, vs. going 15 - 20 MPH on roads or paved trails. At those speeds, it would probably be impossible for me to break my fall using just hands and feet, not to mention the possibility of getting distracted hand running into a street sign or tree branch. Logically I'm aware of all this, but still I have trouble with maintaining proper helmet discipline.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#124

Post by cjensen »

nkingsy wrote: post #6

I ebike 20 miles for work every day and live it. I don’t use my ebike for small errands because it’s too easy to just rip expensive stuff off of it while locked up. Also, the picture shows a rider with no helmet which is insane. I wear a motorcycle helmet and leathers. The speed limit for ebikes on roads in CA is 28, which is deadly with even a normal bike helmet. Finally the article says that the new models are ligh…

In California, a helmet is required for an ebike that can go 28 mph (class 3 e-bike). For the 20 mph e-bikes (class 1 and class 2) no helmet is required for adults.

I'd really like to see more support for class 2 bikes on bike paths around the bay area. Class 2, which does not require pedaling, gets around the "I'm too sweaty when I get to work" issue. My dream: a bike highway to the silicon valley from outlying areas.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#125

Post by derekp7 »

retrovm wrote: post #122
HanayamaTriplet wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add context to your downvotes, it is clear that the author you cite used "market share" in an unusual way (possibly due to a language barrier), since there are certainly more than ~503,000 bicycles in the whole country of Belgium.

Sure, if you don't know what the term "market share" means then your comment makes perfect sense.

What would help your case (with regards to downvotes, and for your words to have greater impact) is to convey additional information instead of just repeating the same thing. For example, you could state that "Market share reflects sales of an item over a fiscal period -- which is different from installed base, which reflects the percentage of units that are in current usage". You can even include a pointer to a reference, such as https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Installed_Base.

This way, even if you are technically correct, you can better convey knowledge when it appears that communication isn't occurring.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#126

Post by alistairSH »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117
alistairSH wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia actually did require helmets for all cyclists. And cycling rates went down.

Bummer, but at the same time it's hard to argue with a measure designed to save lives. If seatbelts wouldn't have been compulsory for decades I think people would have a hard time accepting them as mandatory.

The article I read (this was a few years ago) wondered if the reduction in cycling (due to helmet laws created on safety grounds) actually ended up with the opposite effect. Fewer people outside cycling, more people in cars creating smog and getting fat. They didn't provide any data, just posed the question. I can certainly envision circumstances where that would be true, but you'd have to already have a very safe cycling culture (Amsterdam), I'd think.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#127

Post by wmichelin »

underbluewaters wrote: post #91
ouid wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you're commuting with cars, there is no sense in which the air you are breathing is "fresh"

You are right about that. I'm hoping eventually this will become popular enough that cities will open more dedicated bike paths separate from traffic. I've even heard rumors of our city closing and dedicating the main street downtown for bikes and pedestrians.

San Francisco recently voted to shut down the main downtown road (Market St.) to private cars. I think taxis and buses will still be allowed, but otherwise it'll only be bikes!

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#128

Post by akhilcacharya »

acomjean wrote: post #82
underbluewaters wrote: post #50

I've been commuting using a class-1 (limited to 20 mph) e-bike around Santa Barbara, CA for the last year and it is a dream. Far better experience than I expected. It won't work in all cities but if you have reasonable bike lanes switching over from a car can have many benefits. 1. Cost. Sure it's a high initial outlay (3k) but I'm not paying for insurance, gas, parking, and auto loan payments. 2. Faster. I can hop o…

I’ve been doing a commute from Cambridge ma to Boston with an ebike this year. I agree it’s big plus is being able to pick up speed rapidly in traffic. The being able to easily keep up with traffic is what I miss when I switch to my regular bike, which I had been comuting with for years. Also I ride it more than my traditional bike because it is easier. (I rode to work today) Parking is easier too though I’m still a…

I've considered doing this; my concern is the windchill. How do you manage that?

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#129

Post by retrovm »

derekp7 wrote: post #125
retrovm wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, if you don't know what the term "market share" means then your comment makes perfect sense.

What would help your case (with regards to downvotes, and for your words to have greater impact) is to convey additional information instead of just repeating the same thing. For example, you could state that "Market share reflects sales of an item over a fiscal period -- which is different from installed base, which reflects the percentage of units that are in current usage". You can even include a pointer to a refe…

Yeah but it's 2020 and I decided that just because people are displaying their own ignorance on the Internet doesn't impute upon me the duty to adjust their attitudes. If two fuckwits on HN want to hang around and tell me that I am using the term "market share" in a wrong or unusual way, when they themselves are the ones who obviously don't know what it means, then let them do it. Eventually the accumulated mass of stupidity recorded on this site will sink it.

Re: E-bikes could be the electric revolution cities need

#130

Post by seanmcdirmid »

ChuckNorris89 wrote: post #117
alistairSH wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Australia actually did require helmets for all cyclists. And cycling rates went down.

Bummer, but at the same time it's hard to argue with a measure designed to save lives. If seatbelts wouldn't have been compulsory for decades I think people would have a hard time accepting them as mandatory.

Helmets are a lot less convenient than seatbelts. They have to be stored somewhere, locked to your bike hopefully, and people will still screw with them just because they can. Then you have to put it on your head and somehow get it to be comfortable and not mess up your hair before you arrive at work. None of this is really bad for American biking culture: biking is a serious affair with its own work out clothes with a probable shower if they are going to work anyways. It isn't like Amsterdam where you just kick off in your suit and arrive at work.
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