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Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

bigmessowires.com

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Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#121
post #102
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they say is they have a charger in their pocket and connected to their phone while hiking. So they're like yanking the cable, sometimes slightly, sometimes harder, thousands of times per day, as they walk, climb, etc. I'd say put the thing in a backpack, or use wireless, or whatever...

I'd say it should be designed for being able to put a phone in your pocket while connected to a charger and engaging in sports. That sounds like a perfectly normal consumer-friendly feature, and consumers will do it anyway. Putting it in a backpack means you cannot easily look at it. The solution is fairly simple -- the /housing/ around the plug needs to be standardized and have a snug fit into the housing of the pho…

Didn't downvote, but I can see how you might come across as being disingenuous or trollish by saying it should be designed for a particular use case (which implies it isn't), observing that it doesn't work, and suggesting it be redesigned. Most people have learned that it's a bad idea to keep your phone in your pocket while charging, decide not to do that, and subsequently don't have this problem.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All the issues you are reporting are just growing pains and will be sorted out/disappear alongside adoption and as the standard matures. USB-C is what a computer connector should have been from day 1. Edit: spelling

It could be a long time. Bluetooth has been around for a good while and still has tons of "growing pains."

Bluetooth used to be mostly optional, now that some people (not me) are forced to use it for audio, things might get better in years/decade.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#123
post #112
post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I break about a cable a week and break a device every now and then You're doing it wrong then. I have about 5 USB-C cables and have never broke one in 3 years... Kinds of cables I have broken over my IT life: - A few Apple charger cables (on the Mac connecting end) - A few headphone cables

I disagree with the notion that just because they break that I'm "doing it wrong". Please listen to the customer. Rather, I'd say that they're just not rugged enough for my (consumer) standard of use, which needs to be more rugged than office use. I have legitimate needs to engage in sports while devices are plugged in and accessible. Other consumers get stuff bitten by children and pets, stepped on, tangled, and cau…

>What about IEC cables? They're super rugged and virtually impossible to break. Proportionally downsizing that connector to be small enough would likely maintain the same level of ruggedness while being small.

Those are only designed to carry power though... not a complex list of protocols...

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#124
post #107
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a consumer I want one cable to do all of it. Sure, like anything else, it will be difficult and slow progress to get there. As developer you sould see it as challenge.

It's good that you know your ideal user-experience (developers are aware of it too), but the trade-offs will depend on what's happening on the developer's end, so dismissing developer difficulties is not conducive to a good consumer experience. Developer difficulty is a symptom of a more systemic problem, and it will usually affect the end-user through: higher-cost, lower-reliability, accumulation of technical debt,…

Not dismissing, I understand it is a hard problem. I'm simply saying that is the developer job to solve the issue.

Similar thing happen in web development, there are tons of device, screen size, javascript framework, browser, os, all come with its own quirks. Is it suck ? Yes it is but it is my job as as a competent developer to manage all those complexity and solve the issue. From the user prescriptive, all they need to know is the site is working with whatever device they use, that is the goal.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#125

As much as people complain about USB-C, I absolutely love it. I have a 2018 MacBook Pro, and I use the Caldigit TS3 hub (referenced in the article) as my docking station at work. I plug a single cable in, and I immediately have 2 x 27" 4k monitors, power, USB peripherals, headphones, Ethernet, and much more if I need it. I travel with a single dongle that cost $15: SD card, HDMI, 2xUSB 2. I have not had to buy any ex…

When you find a computer/dock/cable combination that works, it's fantastic. But, in my experience, it's extremely hit or miss whether a different monitor, or laptop, or cable will work with other components. Particularly with 4k@60Hz.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#126
post #28
post #20

This issue was the genesis of the short-lived VirtualLink effort: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VirtualLink VR headsets wanted four lanes of DisplayPort, USB 3.1 for data, and power over a single connector, and no existing standard supported that.

> Unlike most alt-mode; this will also remap A7, A6, B6, B7 to carry USB 3.0 signal, instead of the usual passive USB 2.0 signal. This means that one will not be able to extend the cable using a standard USB-C 3.0 cable, which has these pins mapped only for unshielded USB 2.0 signals. Also this will require the VirtualLink port to also detect the correct orientation of the USB-C plug to ensure that the USB 3.0 TX and…

Why couldn't the connections be swappable electronically inside the connector? The way that modern Ethernet ports adapt to the correct Rx/Tx without needing a crossover cable.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#127
post #10

re "Driver availability and compatibility for Mac/Linux is spotty to non-existent": Is it true that DisplayLink doesn't work well with Linux? Some years ago people were saying that the usb-to-monitor dongles worked well. A casual web search also gives this impression, with good support provided by the DisplayLink company.

The problem is that the driver situation is horrible mess and also that there are three totally incompatible generations of the technology.

The driver that works best is udl, which integrates with KMS/DRI and presents the dongle like additional CRTC and thus allows the existing GPU to be used for acceleration.

There is also udlfb (IIRC both udl and udlfb are in kernel source tree) which tends to be what is used by default by most distributions. udlfb exposes the dongle as additional /dev/fbX device. That means no acceleration to speak off and handling hot-plug is should we say interesting.

Both of the opensource drivers support only USB2 DL dongles.

The there is the binary driver from DisplayLink itself, which I suppose (haven't used it) comes with it's own set of issues, probably starting with the typical issues of binary-only proprietary drivers.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#128
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea why the standard isn't mandating clear markings (eg something like the bands on resistors, or whatever that works for color blind folks too).

Because nobody would follow them anyway. Apple wants white cables, some people want red, blue or yellow cables, so on. And the connectors are so small there is no place to put anything on them.

I just want to find out who at Dell is responsible for perpetuating the use of black markings on a dark-grey background.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#129

Let's talk power: The USB-C PD charger of my Nintendo Switch does not charge my phone, but it does charge my Surface. My phone's USB-C charger does charge the phone and Surface, but not the Switch. My USB-C battery pack charges my phone, but is charged by my Surface. Yeah, it just works. How do, say, a battery pack and a Surface negotiate who is charging who over a symmetric USB-C-to-C cable?

On the topic of power, I really don't understand how USB-C is supposed to replace charging cables. USB-C is limited to 100W. That's enough for a switch, phone or low power laptop, but if this[0] is anything to go by the 6 core intel laptop CPUs already eats 80W of power. Add an extra 2 cores and you might not even be able to sustain a CPU load without draining the battery. Not to mention much higher power draw GPUs.…

Big gaming laptops will always require big power supplies, probably using barrel jacks. I've seen really gigantic ones that use two!

But pretty much every other laptop can get away with well under 100 watts. I use a 30 watt USB C charger at home, and it's fine for using my 15" i7/560X MBP at my desk, because I'm not running it at 100% CPU/GPU for extended periods.

Re: Explaining 4K 60Hz Video Through USB-C Hub

#130

The USB-C spec is an insane mess. The fact that every port used to be different is actually a feature, as it helps you identify which device supports what based on the ports it had. If you see an HDMI port on a laptop you can be sure it's going to output some kind of video signal over that. If you see Thunderbolt then you're sure the machine supports Thunderbolt. USB-C just jams all these incompatible standards into…

These are pretty funny examples considering the amount of different HDMI ports and cable versions and the fact that Thunderbolt doesn't even have a port. It's either a mini display port or a USB C port.

This post shows exactly how useless relying on physical port was.

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