Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

nautil.us

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–129 of 129 posts

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#121

Post by dredmorbius »

nostrademons wrote: post #62
subroutine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you said directly contradicts the wiki article you linked... "Contrary to a widespread misconception (possibly resulting from the acronym HEAT) the shaped charge does not depend in any way on heating or melting for its effectiveness; that is, the jet from a shaped charge does not melt its way through armor, as its effect is purely kinetic in nature"

No, it doesn't contradict it. What I mean by "doesn't require any kinetic energy to penetrate" is that the explosive doesn't need to be moving at all to penetrate. For example, you can stick a shape charge directly underneath a parked tank, detonate it, and it will blow up the tank. (This is exactly what a landmine or IED does.) You could also just drop it by parachute from a drone (this is a cluster bomb). What the…

Whether the impactor mass is a solid shell, or the molten ejecta of a shaped charge, Sir Isaac is going to prosecute you under his Third Law.

Reactionless motion is not possible. The drone will recoil.

That said, it only need fire once given the mission in question.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#122

Post by bilbo0s »

noonespecial wrote: post #68

“A very, very small quadcopter, one inch in diameter can carry a one-or two-gram shaped charge,” he says. “You can order them from a drone manufacturer in China. You can program the code... Or you could start a meme about sneaking up on people and punching them in the head to try to knock them out, styling it as some sort of game. Guess which one I'm more worried about.

Wow.

The one you're worried about is even more hare-brained than the article's worry.

At this point people really are out here creating reasons to be fearful. Don't walk the street, you'll be punched. Don't go to walmart/target, you'll be gunned down by the terrorists. Take off your shoes before you get on this plane, so we can search for the bomb you put in them. And of course this article now adds, don't go outside, the nano swarm will annihilate you.

You guys should really go for a walk and smell some flowers or something.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#123

Post by subroutine »

dredmorbius wrote: post #121
nostrademons wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't contradict it. What I mean by "doesn't require any kinetic energy to penetrate" is that the explosive doesn't need to be moving at all to penetrate. For example, you can stick a shape charge directly underneath a parked tank, detonate it, and it will blow up the tank. (This is exactly what a landmine or IED does.) You could also just drop it by parachute from a drone (this is a cluster bomb). What the…

Whether the impactor mass is a solid shell, or the molten ejecta of a shaped charge, Sir Isaac is going to prosecute you under his Third Law. Reactionless motion is not possible. The drone will recoil. That said, it only need fire once given the mission in question.

It seems like we are all nearly on the same page. n.b. when the author mentioned millions of tiny drones, I immediately pictured my own...

https://i.imgur.com/LU4jzeY.jpg

It probably weighs about 5 grams, mostly due to the battery, which lasts all of 3 minutes (i.e. I wasn't thinking of millions of drones the size of that in the video I linked above)

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#124

Post by gricardo99 »

glangdale wrote: post #120
gricardo99 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

was going to make a similar comment. In their hypothetical scenario they conveniently skip passed the need to obtain/manufacture 10 metric tones of high explosive. I'd say it's not access to drones/AI that's the most frightening in this scenario, it's the access to massive amounts of high explosives. If 3 crazies can get their hands on that quantity of explosives, they don't need drones/AI. A few selectively placed t…

I amused myself with the math that results if our 3 crazies have to hand load 1g of shaped charge on each drone (assuming that you can't exactly subcontract out this "please make our killer drones for us and don't ask any questions). It came to a mere 4.75 years of 16 hour days for the 3 people, assuming it takes 30 seconds per drone. No time off for holidays. It's pretty amazing that someone can spout off about this…

lol. And no weekends.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#125

Post by CompanionCuuube »

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #91
RcouF1uZ4gsC wrote: post #32

> One strategy could be a superintelligent machine—essentially, an extremely powerful algorithm—that’s specifically designed to govern fairly. I volunteer to write that fair governing powerful algorithm. You can trust me to make it fair and not make it favor my biases and interests.

I think we need to use machine learning, feeding it a corpus of all fair government decisions across a selection of successful governments over the last 1000 years.

I would be fine with being able to select which "fair decisions" to train them on.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#126

Post by yellowapple »

kevingadd wrote: post #22
yellowapple wrote: post #10

A more reasonable solution to a bunch of drones terrorizing humanity (at least more reasonable than "hey let's make those drones' lives easier by setting up a giant artificially-intelligent surveillance monstrosity ! What could possibly go wrong?") would be to stock up on shotguns, birdshot, butterfly nets, and crowbars.

Hope you've got a bunch of nets and a bunch of ammo cause drones are pretty cheap and there's nothing stopping someone from sending 5 or 10 your way.

As cheap as drones may be, a single drone costs more than a box of cartridges: https://www.cabelas.com/product/shooting/ammunition/shotgun-...

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#127

Post by Jupe »

ctoth wrote: post #37
Jupe wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Came to say exactly this... Not quite sure how the author went from "Technology is, in other words, enabling criminals to target anyone anywhere and, due to democratization, increasingly at scale" to "One strategy could be a superintelligent machine—essentially, an extremely powerful algorithm—that’s specifically designed to govern fairly".

> Of course, this is a fantastical proposal. Even the real-world use of AI in the justice system is fraught with problems. But at this point, do we have a better idea for preventing the collapse of the state system under the weight of widespread technological empowerment? I'm not sure what motivated this sort of soundbite-style quoting without digging in further, but I hope if you first read the comments without the…

I'm not judging the solution, just the logic that skipped from "Omniviolence" to the absurd proposal for an AI-based government authority. The two are quite unrelated in my mind.

For example, the article made no serious mention of counter-measures such as string (which can down a drone), detection (RF directional antennae), or even just "plant more trees" (as trees make drone navigation more complicated - I know from personal experience).

Just broadcasting random RF/VHF/UHF noise (there are only so many channels available) at drones can wreak havoc.

Quite seriously, do a web search for "can you spot the source of a drone controller", and you will find a wealth of information from RF source detection, to the GPS coordinates of the controller (so the drone can "return home") - there a TON of alternatives that any "scholar" should research before even hinting at a doom-and-gloom alternative such as AI-based government.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#128

Post by darkerside »

trentnix wrote: post #82
darkerside wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What exactly do you think fascist means

Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/) is a form of far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism characterized by dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society and of the economy which came to prominence in early 20th-century Europe. - from Wikipedia. Pretty sure his proposal nails the dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition, and strong regimentation of society parts. After all,…

Parse the definition a bit more here. The things you describe are "characteristics of fascism", but the part that actually _is_ fascism is "far-right, authoritarian ultranationalism". Authoritarianism is one part of fascism, but not the defining characteristic.

Re: Omniviolence Is Coming and the World Isn’t Ready

#129

Post by morningseagulls »

anigbrowl wrote: post #115
morningseagulls wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This struck me as a warmed-over version of the literary conceit that we're all just characters in a particularly elaborate-seeming novel or stage play. He also came up with the notion of apocalyptic "superintelligences"[0], which is a warmed-over version of 20th-century critiques of the corporation, starting with one written by an economist and a lawyer[1]. People like Cory Doctorow[2], Ted Chiang[3] and Charlie Str…

Damn, I do that for free and a large mug of coffee every morning (crossposted to 'if you're so smart how come you're not rich' thread)

Sorry. Still, it never ceases to amaze me what some people end up doing for work. "You mean they pay people for this?!" is usually my first reaction.
Post reply on HN