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Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

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Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#121

Post by cogman10 »

delfinom wrote: post #72
alimbada wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're comparing apples to oranges. Operating system architectures can vary a lot. CPU architecture between Intel and AMD can't vary much since they both target x86. Every vulnerability found with Intel CPUs can and has been tested for against AMD CPUs which is something you simply cannot do with operating systems, and AMD CPUs have been found not to have the same vulnerabilities.

>CPU architecture between Intel and AMD can't vary much since they both target x86 Yes they can. Instruction sets are just that, a bunch of op codes and "things" for a processor to do. How a processor actually performs them is open to implementation.

Right, it is like declaring that "Java bytecode is fixed, all JVMs are the same!"

Implementation matters a lot. Heck, it is WHY there are performance differences between AMD and Intel CPUs.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#122

Post by gravypod »

vbezhenar wrote: post #16

Now it's an interesting battle. I want to build new workstation, probably in 2020. I was going to go to Threadripper route, but now I have a choice and that's awesome.

TR4 will likely support PCIe 4.0. It seems to make sense to me to pick Threadripper because of this. Ignoring costs the future-proof of having tomorrow's IO interconnect is probably worth a few bucks for a work machine.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#123

Post by xbmcuser »

jumpingmice wrote: post #96
distances wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which buyers exactly? Enthusiasts seem to be switching overwhelmingly to AMD: e.g. Mindfactory having AMD at 81% now. [0] Anecdotally, there seems to be a lot of resentment towards Intel for their shenanigans, I don't personally know anyone who's even considering Intel for their own builds. It's a different matter for laptops where consumers have much less say on the topic, of course. [0] https://m.imgur.com/gallery/…

I think he means relevant buyers, like Google and Apple etc. People who order their CPUs by the cubic meter.

Google is also looking at AMD for it servers. As AMD is beating Intel with the current generation so badly in all cost metrics that using Intel is wasting money.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#124

Post by potta_coffee »

tyri_kai_psomi wrote: post #26
snagglegaggle wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers at this level are durable goods and ostensibly help you take an income, so it's not too strange.

Mass market computers and components being described as a durable good...HN surprises again!

I'm still running an AMD cpu I bought around 2019 ( I think?) in a tower that is 10 years older than that. The PSU is a year old because I had to replace it. The video card is 2 years old. All that to say, I run my hardware for a long time.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#125

Post by msbarnett »

cogman10 wrote: post #119
armitron wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're focusing on something that doesn't really matter in the context of what he was saying, and ignoring the bigger truth which is that security researchers DID look at AMD processors and they DID find that they do not suffer from the vulnerabilities that plague Intel.

All the vulnerabilities. Speculative execution vulnerabilities were found in AMD, just not the meltdown vulnerability. And, his point still stands. While intel has/had meltdown, which was pretty bad. That doesn't mean that a Meltdown like bug doesn't exist in AMD's hardware. It's like finding a bug in the OpenJDK that isn't in Zulu and then declaring that "Zulu is more secure than the OpenJDK!" Or an even closer exam…

> All the vulnerabilities. Speculative execution vulnerabilities were found in AMD, just not the meltdown vulnerability.

Just Not Meltdown. Or SPOILER. Or Fallout. Or RIDL. Or ZombieLoad.

You're really underselling the difference between the two. AMD's processors have only shown vulnerability to the issues that are inherent to the nature of speculative execution (Spectre).

Intel, on the other hand, has suffered from no less than 5 or 6 separate disclosures of vulnerabilities from various places in their microarchitecture where they cut corners on process separation in order to gain speed. None of these exploits have been pulled off against AMD, despite many of the papers authors explicitly trying to,

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#126

Post by potta_coffee »

creaturemachine wrote: post #39
zozbot234 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Computers are quite durable these days. You can easily run a useful, general-purpose OS on a computer from 10 years ago and perhaps more, even one with baseline specs. If that's not enough to be considered a 'durable good', I don't know what is.

Tell that to my 9 year old iMac with the dead GPU that I can't replace, won't start up, and is going straight into the trash. Never again, Apple.

Yes, my iMac has been flaking out for a while and only does Netflix now. Terrible design, especially for such an expensive machine.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#127

Post by new_realist »

new_realist wrote: post #92
zozbot234 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nvidia's Linux support? AMD actually has open source drivers these days, just like Intel, Nvidia just gives you a binary module, which means in order to make use of that hardware you have to taint your kernel and aren't free to update it if the in-kernel ABI changes. It's basically on par with the vendors of all those "useless ARM devices out there", none of them with "usable Linux support".

AMD doesn’t support 8K monitors under Linux. I agree, NVIDIA has far better usability for most users. The fact that it’s a binary blob means nothing to anyone who isn’t an OSS activist.

Once again we see the unfortunate trend of downvotes used to censor unpopular opinions.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#128

Post by howdydoo »

Filligree wrote: post #106
howdydoo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a PC seven years ago (i7-3770K). It's lasted through multiple apartments and multiple jobs. I do all my dev work and gaming on it, and it's even able to run Slack. How much longer does something need to last before it's considered durable?

I have a food processor that my parents bought nearly fifty years ago. They had to replace the motor once, and then I replaced the wiring on the motor coil four years ago, but it's still ticking. Stainless steel, no plastic components. (The buttons used to be plastic. Now they're wood.) That's durable. It also does a much better job than any modern food processor, possibly because the motor is four times the size of…

The rate at which technology advances doesn't change whether a good is considered a durable good or not. That term has a specific meaning in economics.

There are 50-year-old cars still in service today. I wouldn't drive one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean cars aren't durable goods.

And even though computing is barely 50 years old, there are 50-year-old computers in service today. I wouldn't use one, because I want to take advantage of the tech advancements of the past 50 years. But that doesn't mean computers aren't durable goods.

This applies even if a 50-year-old car, which predates bluetooth, doesn't have built-in bluetooth. And it applies even if a 50-year-old computer, which predates HTTP, can't load websites.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#129

Post by j8014 »

Filligree wrote: post #106
howdydoo wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built a PC seven years ago (i7-3770K). It's lasted through multiple apartments and multiple jobs. I do all my dev work and gaming on it, and it's even able to run Slack. How much longer does something need to last before it's considered durable?

I have a food processor that my parents bought nearly fifty years ago. They had to replace the motor once, and then I replaced the wiring on the motor coil four years ago, but it's still ticking. Stainless steel, no plastic components. (The buttons used to be plastic. Now they're wood.) That's durable. It also does a much better job than any modern food processor, possibly because the motor is four times the size of…

I wouldn't consider that durable, just repairable. After all, that's like saying an old classic car is durable because it exists and only had its motor replaced once.

Re: Intel slashes prices in face of AMD competition

#130

Post by marcosdumay »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #68
madrix999 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More like this, intel has cut a lot of corners for a long time in their x86 processors, mostly to have better performance, which ended up with all these vulnerabilites we keep hearing about every couple of months. They're just now suffering the consequences of all the shady things they've done to try and establish a monopoly in the CPU market

A more generous interpretation: Intel made decisions that favored actual measurable performance today at the expensive of theoretically known vulnerabilities that might be exploited in some hypothetical future . They gave the market what the market demanded at a cost they tolerated. And even now, after said theoretical vulnerabilities have been reified, there is very little cause to be concerned about the vulnerabili…

Intel made decisions that favored the actual indicators people were looking at with a hidden cost on things people weren't aware of. They got the market exactly what the market demanded while deceiving that market by applying known bad practices. There is a huge difference in impact from saving money by using lead-based paint, but it's the same kind of decision.

> unless you host code for other people as a business model

Or is a victim of one of those javascript based exploits when visiting a random site.

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