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RIP Bill Zeller

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121–130 of 146 posts

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#121

This is a sad story. I am reminded of another Princeton suicide, Manzili Davis '06 drove to California during spring break of his senior year, rented a storage unit and took his life inside of it. It was weeks before he was found. http://www.princeton.edu/main/news/archive/S14/54/83M99/ We had mutual friends and I met him a few times. He had his own "darkness" just like Bill Zeller. I do wonder if places like Princet…

I really don't want to change the subject or take away from the discussion about Bill, but I just want to quickly interject and say I disagree with this. I have now lived in Princeton for 18 years, unaffiliated with the University (I went to HS here, but go to college elsewhere). The town is picturesque, historic, and enhanced by the sterling reputation of the University. As for the isolation, NYC is just an hour train ride away, Philly an hour and a half. I suppose there isn't a ton of stuff to do in the town, but I've never found it to be a problem. In any case, Princeton is a great place to live.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#122
post #6

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong? He was so afraid to let the secret out... maybe that needs to be made easier...? I have no idea--I can't even begin to empathize with how difficult that must have been to live with.

Brutal! How can we help if we don't even know something's wrong?

(Assuming that wasn't rhetorical): By treating people with real respect and gentleness. You never know whom you are dealing with or how your behavior will impact them.

I was molested and raped as a child, something I'm pretty open about. For me, a big deal moment was after the birth of my second child when the doctor took off his gown and, apparently without really thinking about it, gently wiped some of the blood off of me. I have no idea what his name was. The birth of my second child happened pretty fast, so I interacted with this man for probably 15 minutes or less. I had never known a man to be that gentle or considerate before. I have no reason to think he ever had any idea how big of a deal that one action was to me. It made a big psychological and emotional impact and I still remember it with some clarity -- how startled I was and how strange and wondrous it seemed -- more than 21 years later (even in spite of the 9 or 10 years I was doped to the gills on prescription and non-prescription medication for a serious medical crisis, which has left me with "swiss cheese for brains"). It occupied my mind for some weeks afterwards, if not longer.

Peace.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#123
This is a sad day for all programmers, and also for those who have been molested in any way. I cannot honestly understand the true pain he must have felt, but I believe his pain was unlike anything most of us can understand.

What was most telling was his utter disgust for his parents, to the extent he loathed them even more than he loathed the person who molested him and caused darkness to reign over his life. And most ironic is that his parents believed abandoning him for the love of God was in their and his best interest. I am a Christian, and it sickens me what they have done because of what they believed as him not being "saved."

I want to believe him, that he took his life because of the "darkness" in his life, resulting from being molested as a child. But I am still puzzled that he never spoke a word of disgust about the person who molested him. This was shocking, considering he laid into his friends who couldn't keep a secret, he mercilessly criticized his parents, yet never mention a bad word about the molester, only the "darkness."

Unless, and this might be huge, the "darkness" is his father. He said his mother loves him at one point, but he never said a good word about his dad. He only criticized his father (while criticizing both parents). I am beginning to think his father is the one who molested him, considering everything in his letter.

The letter was very important, because it allows the reader to carefully study and try to understand what might have caused this young man to take his own life. Though being molested caused him much trouble and "darkness" throughout his life, I believe his parents are partly to be blame for his mindful decline into frightful and terrifying non-existence. And the big secret in his letter is probably that his father molested him.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for your kind words. To understand where Bill is coming from you really need to hop into his shoes. He tried to trust people but they violated that trust. Regardless of the reasons for doing that, they didn't keep his secret. What he told them was much less important to him than his ultimate secret. If they can't keep those smaller secrets, why can they keep the big one? For better or worse all of the other…

People aren't linear functions. People treat information with the severity they think it has. So the notion that someone can't keep a "bigger" secret because they betrayed a smaller secret does not hold.

What you said is exactly the problem. It isn't for you to decide what is a big or small secret. If a person wants something kept quiet, that should be enough. The receiver's own view of what should be spread is immaterial.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#125
post #120

A note of caution: If you choose to read the actual suicide note as I did, be prepared for a rather intense emotional trip. I don't mean to say that to dissuade anyone from reading it, but just that... I was not expecting what I ended up reading and it really made me sit back and, I dunno, just be sad for awhile. Such a shame.

I stopped during the second paragraph, because I suspected as much. Maybe I'll read his old blogs instead, he was sounding like a captivating writer.

I had that same impression. Although he repeated some of the basic points (darkness, depression, social isolation) ad nauseam, he strikes me as someone who had potential as a writer. It's tragic that he did not explore writing as a non-terminal outlet for his darkness.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#126

This might be a good time to mention that we are looking for volunteers for http://CompassionPit.com/ . It was created by people who have struggled with depression for most of their life. The other day someone commented about it, "I used CompassionPit for the first time this week. I really like the idea of it. Reminds me of when I reached out to an online videogame friend when I was 12 years old when I was super depr…

I'm sorry, but I think that it's a terrible idea. If it ever gets popular, it will get swamped by trolls from Something Awful, 4Chan, and other cesspools. The last thing you need is for someone to go looking for help and have someone go "LOL KILL YOURSELF." Followed by rude language.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#127
I've no business commenting on this as I haven't ever suffered a similar sort of trauma, you could argue. However I did start reading this note and found myself strongly flustered at this part:

I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would feel some peace and not be constantly haunted and unhappy. But nothing I did made a dent in how depressed I was on a daily basis and nothing was in any way fulfilling.

I'm annoyed at how stupid it is. And how, until recently, I wouldn't even have noticed. Let me translate to illustrate:

I desperately wanted to see what was on top of that hill over there. I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New York or published papers that I was proud of, then maybe I would find out what is at the top of the hill. But nothing I did made a dent in my knowledge

Wouldn't that be silly? Wouldn't that make you wonder what he was thinking? Wouldn't you say "so go climb the hill. That's what you need to do and that's all you need to do. Forget the distractions. Go over there. Climb the hill as high as you can and keep trying every few days until you build up the fitness to get to the top".

Yet you see the note of the guy and you feel sorry for him and how hard he tried to keep living and how much he struggled and what pain he was in and he missed this concept completely. If you want peace you need to work on peace and why you can't be at peace and changing yourself so you can. If you want to not be haunted you need to work on not being haunted and if you want to be happy you need to work on being happy and how you can be. Not on grad school or weight loss or gym work or anything else. Your life isn't unhappy, your thoughts are unhappy. Don't improve your life, improve your thoughts. It might not work, but the other way cannot work.

If your code isn't working right, you'll never ever ever fix it by going to the gym. You will only stand any chance of fixing it if you look for the bugs in the code that isn't working and out from there. If you have been hurt and can't be happy, you need to work out how to feel happy even though you got hurt. That's it. That mental adjustment is where the bulk of your energy should be going. Learning to change it and trying repeatedly until you succeed.

It's so frustrating to look at it and see him basically saying "I skirted around my problems all my life and suffered horribly, and when they didn't magically go away I decided they were completely unfixable".

You can feel however you like about whatever you like. This definitely extends to feeling good even when bad things happen. Maybe not all bad things, but many. It may not extend to PTSD. What's frustrating is that he believed he was unfixable without any solid basis for that belief - without talking to a single expert, even - then made the biggest and last decision of his life based on this conclusion.

It's not cowardly or morally inferior or anything like that, it's just ... a strategy that stands a low chance of helping.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hear that in his words as well. It's as if he was scared that people with his secret could hurt him again somehow. I'd say that's understandable. I've never had a counselor actually read notes in front of me. They do have notes, and they do read them, but not while we're in a session. When that happened to him I imagine he felt more like a patient than a peer (for lack of a better word). It's disappointing to me be…

Yogi If I may - I will highly suggest you read Power of Now - chunk at a time, randomly, start to end whatever fits your bill. I see the seeds of acceptance in you so may be you have already read it - if not, please do.

While reading the suicide note, and the 2 threads on this, i could not help wondering many many times how much it would have helped Bill had he read the Power of Now. One problem i notice is that people who are stuck in a problem, keep trying the same solution for decades even though its not worked. We need to look at our problem from other angles and be open to new solutions.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#129

I've no business commenting on this as I haven't ever suffered a similar sort of trauma, you could argue. However I did start reading this note and found myself strongly flustered at this part: I thought that if I got into to a good college, or a good grad school, or lost weight, or went to the gym nearly every day for a year, or created programs that millions of people used, or spent a summer or California or New Yo…

You assume that he was able to apply logic to his emotional sensibilities. Because of what happened to him, this could never be the case. The darkness, as he called it, enveloped his reason. One of a host of horrific and sad consequences of his suffering.

Re: RIP Bill Zeller

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yogi If I may - I will highly suggest you read Power of Now - chunk at a time, randomly, start to end whatever fits your bill. I see the seeds of acceptance in you so may be you have already read it - if not, please do.

While reading the suicide note, and the 2 threads on this, i could not help wondering many many times how much it would have helped Bill had he read the Power of Now. One problem i notice is that people who are stuck in a problem, keep trying the same solution for decades even though its not worked. We need to look at our problem from other angles and be open to new solutions.

That's exactly why depression is so hard to shake. You beat yourself up repeatedly without even knowing it and wonder why the heck you can't just snap out of it.

Sometimes I wonder how my counselor deals with telling me the same thing again and again for months. And then I sign her check :)

Seems like this is a book worth checking out, thanks!

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