121–130 of 439 posts
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M is the Roman numeral for 1000, so MM is a thousand thousands, in other words a million.
That's not how roman numerals work 22 MM is... 44,000 - though it seems like some Oil & Gas execs never got the memo and were using it as thousand thousands this is... sadness. I believe the M (in $100M) also isn't based in roman numerals but is a convenient dual meaning of Mega- (the metric 10^6 prefix) and the first letter of million.
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If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing, that's as free from cruelty as you can get. If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that problem, since the animal would never be born without farming.
Lacking life isn't a remotely useful metric for cruelty, or every minute decision anyone has ever made is responsible for an infinite number of states of the universe not happening.
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As a meat eater, I've had mixed results with Beyond Burger and the Impossible Burger. With real meat, it's pretty hard to mess up a burger; if it's anywhere from medium rare to medium well, it's still going to be a pretty tasty burger. The current burger substitutes require a much more narrow window before they just don't taste very good. That said, I'm extremely bullish on these; they're already great and they're on…
Good points about ease of cooking and error. So much of short-term adoption of these is tied to marketing and time, but their long-term success strikes me as a foregone conclusion. In marketing, they will need to get past a latent psychological hurdle and in time, waiting for the crotchety older folks who insist, no matter what, on a "real burger." Both things are related to the living generations who have grown up w…
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If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing, that's as free from cruelty as you can get. If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that problem, since the animal would never be born without farming.
> If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing How do you measure this? How do you know for certain that what you're eating had no idea it was about to die when it did? How do you know animals don't experience existential suffering, similar to how humans experience it? Why do you believe that humans are in control of their livestock's emotional state, even w…
You can observe animal behavior and say, "They appear not to be suffering from existential dread beyond what they would in the wild", you may be able to measure cortisol levels in the meat. But you'll never know for sure.
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So if we don't know its longterm health effects, why are people so eager to replace meat with it in their diet?
Desire to avoid consumption of environmentally disastrous and morally questionable meat. And it's not like the standard american diet has been doing a lot of favors for most people's health.
pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, water, yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavors, gum arabic, sunflower oil, salt, succinic acid, acetic acid, non-GMO modified food starch, cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, beet juice extract (for color), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), annatto extract (for color), citrus fruit extract (to maintain quality), vegetable…
Have you ever gone to a baseball game and ordered a hotdog? What's in that hotdog? My guess is most people don't ask. They're always so damn curios to know whats in a veggie burger... but they don't give a damn about what's in a hotdog.
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If the animal is free from suffering, including lacking awareness of what's happening during the killing, that's as free from cruelty as you can get. If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that problem, since the animal would never be born without farming.
I don't think lacking life has ever been an argument vegetarians use. Once consciousness emerges, there is an innate desire to remain alive and to be free from suffering. Even if we could give animals a wonderful life in our current capitalist system, and then kill them without their awareness, we'd still need to justify (from a philosophical standpoint) why it would be immoral to do the same with a human animal.
That would make sense, since GP said:
> If lacking life is what's cruel, then vegetarianism doesn't really solve that problem.
So if vegetarians used the argument that lacking life is cruel, then vegetarianism would be cruel, right? It makes perfect sense (given GP's point) that they don't use that argument.
You're the third replyer that writes as if they disagree about this while making the same point. I'm wondering if I'm reading this wrong, or if GP edited their comment just before I loaded the page.
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I'm with you. I haven't eaten red meat or birds for going on 25 years now and though I do enjoy a good salmon burger, I honestly prefer a beyond burger when I can find one (trying to cut down on the fish, for health and over-fishing reasons).
I still periodically eat meat, as I mentioned I did work with a local farmer to buy a whole beef. But it's something special and deliberate -- should we make one of our roasts? We don't have very many, so each one is precious. We use all the bones we could get to make stock, etc. Try to really appreciate the one animal we've had harvested for our family, but still eat vegetarian or vegan on the vast majority of days…
pea protein isolate, expeller-pressed canola oil, refined coconut oil, water, yeast extract, maltodextrin, natural flavors, gum arabic, sunflower oil, salt, succinic acid, acetic acid, non-GMO modified food starch, cellulose from bamboo, methylcellulose, potato starch, beet juice extract (for color), ascorbic acid (to maintain color), annatto extract (for color), citrus fruit extract (to maintain quality), vegetable…
There's a lot of things that the cow eats during its life that don't make it onto that label but do definitely make it into your body. none of the ingredients in the list above scare me. If you still think that beef is better than a plant based alternative for you or the environment you are disillusioned. I'm not vegetarian either
The nutrition of Beyond Burger is pretty much on par with the nutrition of beef.
I'm not convinced that consuming "plant based alternatives" is a step in the right direction in dealing with health and environment issues especially when compared to more traditional approach like eating balanced meals using a plate model.
Eating more veggies, on the other hand, yes much better.
I've gone vegetarian, except for a single grass fed animal I bought from a local farmer. (I live in a city, it was easier than I thought it would be to connect with a farmer out in the rural part of my state.) The transition was way, way easier than I thought it was going to be. I didn't guilt myself when I made mistakes, just stopped eating meat unless I was sure the provenance of it was sustainable and free from cr…
>free from cruelty. Do you mind if I ask what your requirements for this are? At the end of the day, isn't ending life cruel, no matter the means?