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After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

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Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#121

Post by lgleason »

Tongue in cheek......this is planned obsolescence. New model with upgraded features is announced so you start to brick the old ones by making them run into things. :) Of course there is that pesky issue of it potentially injuring/killing the driver and passengers....

In all seriousness, these things are getting better, but Skynet is not here yet. Just because a company, governmental agency etc. says something is safe you always need to evaluate things yourself..and it's probably not a good idea to rely on these auto pilots unless you want to win a Darwin award. I love the cars, but the hype is a bit annoying around stuff like this.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#122

Post by lordalch »

tptacek wrote: post #119
Scoundreller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far back as 2016 they were claiming they had full SDC capability above human driver safety One crash/incident doesn’t mean it’s less safe than a human driver on average , even if it’s something a human driver might have avoided. We should expect different failure modes from a machine, but adopt it anyway if it avoids enough human failure modes to make up for it. Source: my thermostat thought 33C was an acceptabl…

Don't Teslas fare significantly worse than cars in similar class in terms of driver fatalities?

I don't have the fatalities stats, but their safety ratings have been perfect.

[0] https://www.cnbc.com/2018/09/20/tesla-model-3-earns-perfect-...

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#123

Post by Scoundreller »

tptacek wrote: post #119
Scoundreller wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As far back as 2016 they were claiming they had full SDC capability above human driver safety One crash/incident doesn’t mean it’s less safe than a human driver on average , even if it’s something a human driver might have avoided. We should expect different failure modes from a machine, but adopt it anyway if it avoids enough human failure modes to make up for it. Source: my thermostat thought 33C was an acceptabl…

Don't Teslas fare significantly worse than cars in similar class in terms of driver fatalities?

Dunno, maybe. I do wonder which cars Tesla gets lumped in with.

There can be a difference between a $75k ICE driver and a $75k electric driver.

The point is, one stupid decision by a machine doesn’t prove much.

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

sschueller wrote: post #4

Eventually we need the NTSB to certify updates before they are pushed out over the air. Similar to what the FAA does. These OTA updates are not ok for large machinery and endagers not only the Tesla driver but all others on the road.

> Eventually we need the NTSB to certify updates before they are pushed out over the air. Similar to what the FAA does.

You mean, similar to what FAA might do if it didn't allow manufucturer self-certification instead, right?

Also, wouldn't NHSTA, which does safety regulation and standards for autos, not NTSB, that does accident investigation, be the natural agency?

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#127

Post by syntaxing »

ip26 wrote: post #110
syntaxing wrote: post #102

Tesla should just partner or acquire a LiDAR startup already like Baraja [1]...They can let the computer vision do all the magic they want. Just have one scanning LiDAR as a redundant system so that it doesn't run into anything in front of the car. [1] https://www.baraja.com/

I don't know why, but supposedly they've made "no LiDAR" their hill to die on.

Yeah, it's such a weird mentality. Their new patent on a "CNN" ASIC is pretty neat but still doesn't solve a lot of their problems. Are they banking on a magical depth CNN architecture to be released or something?!

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#128

Post by lisper »

Karunamon wrote: post #90
lisper wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Make a sudden turn? It's just lane following You're begging the question [1]. The autopilot has full control authority over the steering wheel, so if it fails, nothing constrains it from making a sudden turn. If it is "just lane following" then it hasn't failed (yet). [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Begging_the_question

Your hands. If you're just resting them on the wheel, that's not enough to prevent the attention monitor from working, it actually has to measure some physical resistance. If you resist the automatic inputs too much, the AP cuts out. You can test this yourself in a tesla by engaging cruise control, then hitting a turn signal. This would normally initiate an automatic lane change - but keep your hands tightly on the w…

> Your hands.

Sure, if you react fast enough.

Let's not lose the plot here. The original claim was:

"The AP can only kill you if you're distracted/asleep at the wheel and not paying attention."

(Emphasis added.)

And that's not true. It can kill you, quite simply, by producing the wrong control input in a situation where the available recovery time is less than your reaction time.

If you doubt this, then I challenge you to drive a car where the autopilot is under my control. (It will have to be remote control because no fucking way am I willing to be in the car with you when we do this experiment.)

Re: After 6 months of working fine, Tesla software update drives at barriers again

#130

Post by throwaway789214 »

rhino369 wrote: post #111
throwaway789214 wrote: post #73

Crazy how people are blatantly ignoring that even on autopilot drivers need to be attentive and keep situational awareness at all times. I can't remember that there was ever a case in which autopilot caused a situation that an attentive driver couldn't have recovered from. Yet it is blamed on the system when people ignore this requirement and end up in an accident. Throw-away for obvious reasons...

So what’s the point of it? Not steering but needing to able to steer immediately seems much more mentally taxing than just steering.

Do not use it if it is net negative for you but if you do, follow the instructions. You can't have the cake and eat it.

There are a lot of people at Tesla working fulltime on auto-pilot and some drivers think they know better than them by disregarding their instructions how to use it? Frankly, that's just crazy.

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