Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#121

Post by sjwright » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:28 AM UTC

watwut wrote: post #102

sjwright wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on my post, I should add: Fruit is evil. The fruits we buy in the supermarket (or hipster organic farmers market) bare little resemblance to the less sweet and less palatable fruits that humans would have eaten prior to cultivation. Through an ongoing process (over multiple millennia) of artificially selecting for higher sugar content, we have turned nature’s fruits into the equivalent of candy bars. If you…

I love how people jumped from "fat is evil" to "fruit is evil". As if Americans, and yes it is always Americana, were invested in making everything extreme always. I guarantee you that you can eat tons of apples, oranges and other fruits every day and not get fat. Also, you can't live off vegetables only. They just don't have enough calories to keep you going whole day. And you do need some amount of calories to perf…

I'm not American.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#122

Post by sjwright » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:29 AM UTC

wwweston wrote: post #70

sjwright wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To expand on my post, I should add: Fruit is evil. The fruits we buy in the supermarket (or hipster organic farmers market) bare little resemblance to the less sweet and less palatable fruits that humans would have eaten prior to cultivation. Through an ongoing process (over multiple millennia) of artificially selecting for higher sugar content, we have turned nature’s fruits into the equivalent of candy bars. If you…

Awareness that fruit is not a pure health food is good. "Equivalent of candy bars" may be overstating the case. Raw fruit at least delivers its sugars in a matrix of fibers which change the absorption profile, induce satiety, and even provides a natural limit on how much you can consume, among other benefits. There are sometimes better choices than an apple, but an apple is definitely better than a candy bar (or most…

I admit "Equivalent of candy bars" is definitely overstating the case, but it's hard to accurately state the case in a world where meme-grade sound bytes have the most impact. Absent sufficient nuance, the "fruit is healthy" message is borderline dangerous advice.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#123

Post by massivecali » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:41 AM UTC

thaumasiotes wrote: post #112

p1necone wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even freshly squeezed orange juice with no additives is almost nutritionally indistinguishable from Coca Cola.

In Shanghai, I found a vending machine offering fresh-squeezed orange juice. The front of the machine was a window, so after buying a juice you could watch as a few oranges were rolled into a press and crushed. Then you got a sealed cup with the juice in it. The juice had barely any orange flavor at all. I concluded that fresh-squeezed orange juice is overwhelmingly just water. This suggests that it is in fact distin…

Trader Joes used to have 2 machines in the late 80s which were Fresh Peanut Butter and Orange Juice. Both machines ground the ingredients fresh on demand. Peanut butter went into little tupperware like containers. OJ went into jugs. It seems all current commenters who might frequent TJs are too young to have experienced these things. The biting tart flavor of fresh squeezed OJ is often what is attempted to be imitated by homestyle or tart labels. Trader joes non pasteurized is still not the same flavor.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#124

Post by TheSpiceIsLife » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:47 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #111

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fanta would be a more apt simile. Coca Cola contains caffeine, which oranges decidedly do not.

I would love caffeinated fruit to start my day (whole fruit, not juices of course).

You could drop a bit of No-Doz in your juice, might make it taste bitter though.

Personally I hate pure caffeine. I find cocoa powder way smoother / less jittery, and generally less fatiguing.

Edit: sorry, I see, now, you wrote whole. Just swallow the No-Doz. But, again, while cocoa beans or powder for me.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#125

Post by mises » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:58 AM UTC

toomuchtodo wrote: post #111

TheSpiceIsLife wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fanta would be a more apt simile. Coca Cola contains caffeine, which oranges decidedly do not.

I would love caffeinated fruit to start my day (whole fruit, not juices of course).

Chocolate-covered espresso beans. Enough said.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#126

Post by p1necone » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 12:59 AM UTC

dagoat wrote: post #114

jopsen wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most of us vitamins is rarely a problem.. so if we ignored that. Then do we have any studies to suggest soda contains "bad" stuff that juice doesn't.. I feel like we often associated natural things with being healthy, without necessary justification :)

> For most of us vitamins is rarely a problem.. so if we ignored that. What are you basing that on? > Then do we have any studies to suggest soda contains "bad" stuff that juice doesn't Probably. Look at a few labels of various sodas. You'll often find things like phosphoric acid, artificial colours, artificial preservatives, caffeine, artificial sweeteners etc. Are these the worse things in the world? Probably not.…

> Look at a few labels of various sodas. You'll often find things like phosphoric acid, artificial colours, artificial preservatives, caffeine, artificial sweeteners etc.

This is still just the Natural = Good, Artificial = Bad fallacy. You can't just list some stuff with chemically sounding names and say "look - scary bad chemicals!". What specifically are you claiming is bad?

You went from "soda has other bad things in it" to "probably, possibly, maybe" as soon as you had to be more specific.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#127

Post by ZeroFries » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 1:07 AM UTC

bad_user wrote: post #93

ZeroFries wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except sugar isn't inherently bad for you. Refined sugar isn't great, because it lacks nutrients, but juice doesn't have that problem. Also, juice can improve insulin sensitivity and elicits a lower insulin response than most starches and proteins. The overall effect on glucose and insulin is neutral. Sugar also contributes to fatty liver less than saturated fat, and only does so in the context of a hyper-caloric die…

> Sugar also contributes to fatty liver less than saturated fat I’ve seen multiple studies suggesting otherwise, sugar being in general responsible for non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. That assertion will also be difficult to swallow for anybody that ever attempted a Keto diet. I can talk from my own experience with Keto, when I binge ate butter on cheese (aka fat bombs). I did not lose any weight and yet my fatty…

Humans store saturated fat because it's stable and calorically dense.

I'm actually not against saturated fat, I'm just not against sugar, or any other macronutrient. The food matters more than the macronutrient composition. If your argument against sugar is that it's converted to fat, I don't really follow, especially given you're a proponent of a high fat diet.

Would like to see those studies om sugar and fatty liver (compared to other macronutrients).

Also, why do you believe saturated fat is necessary? Okinawas eat a very low saturated fat diet (traditionally) and have great longevity.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#128

Post by fma » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 1:14 AM UTC

vanderZwan wrote: post #100

fma wrote: post #92

I grew up in the US, but my wife, inlaws did not. I have a daughter, who is only 2. Sams Club started offering juicing at the store last year. You see them fill up a machine w/ oranges and it cuts, grinds, and does whatever...and out comes fresh juice. Maybe me having grown up on American sugary substance, my palate has gotten worse. But my wife, inlaws definitely prefer the fresh one when I do a blind taste test. Me…

> Maybe me having grown up on American sugary substance, my palate has gotten worse. Serious question: how is your sense of smell?

My smell is pretty good. Taste...meh.

Example: Things that my wife feel is salty, like can soup, I don't give a second thought to.

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#129

Post by atombender » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 1:20 AM UTC

massivecali wrote: post #123

thaumasiotes wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Shanghai, I found a vending machine offering fresh-squeezed orange juice. The front of the machine was a window, so after buying a juice you could watch as a few oranges were rolled into a press and crushed. Then you got a sealed cup with the juice in it. The juice had barely any orange flavor at all. I concluded that fresh-squeezed orange juice is overwhelmingly just water. This suggests that it is in fact distin…

Trader Joes used to have 2 machines in the late 80s which were Fresh Peanut Butter and Orange Juice. Both machines ground the ingredients fresh on demand. Peanut butter went into little tupperware like containers. OJ went into jugs. It seems all current commenters who might frequent TJs are too young to have experienced these things. The biting tart flavor of fresh squeezed OJ is often what is attempted to be imitate…

A lot of grocery stores (Whole Foods comes to mind) have a self-serve machine in the grocery department that squeezes fresh oranges into a plastic bottle for you: http://c8.alamy.com/comp/JT6NJ6/self-served-orange-juicer-fr....

Re: Freshly Squeezed: The Truth About Orange Juice in Boxes

#130

Post by ZeroFries » Mon, Feb 11, 2019, 1:35 AM UTC

theNJR wrote: post #68

evo_9 wrote: post #43

It's interesting the degree to which people will defend their fruit juice drinking in this thread. I wonder if it's a mild form of addiction. I used to drink a lot of OJ when I was still under the illusion it was healthy to do so. Simply stopping that I lost about 15 pounds without changing anything else. It was tough at first, I really craved it and it was a daily habit. It's turned out to be the biggest health impr…

It’s crazy the number of really smart people who are steadfast in their belief that fruit is good. It’s non-stop propangda starting at birth, direct from the mothers mouth. I wonder where this meme started and why? I cant imagine ‘big fruit’ is that big or sinister.

Probably because nearly every study points to fruit being very healthy for you. Probably because it's high in nutrients, fibre, and flavonoids, and very low in anti-nutrients (when ripe). It's crazier the number of people who think sugar is bad for you no matter the context or package it comes in.