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U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

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Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#121

Post by seppin »

thetechlead wrote: post #114
largehotcoffee wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Simply put, Huawei's products have better quality and companies in the US can't compete with it. >I'm now typing on a Huawei Matebook 13 and carrying a Huawei Mate 10 phone. Those things have amazing quality and it's a real pity customers can't have them in the States. You have an interesting post history supporting Huawei for an account only a month old...

You're welcome to read all my posts and comments, and they are public. I have been reading hacker news for a few years and only recently wanted to sign up. so what's your point?

You are nakedly cheerleading for an authoritarian China and it's creepy and weird.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#122

Post by danudey »

make3 wrote: post #105
product50 wrote: post #100

To commenters in this thread explaining that this is unfair (since almost all countries including US did it at some point of time), the main issue is that USA is powerful enough to do something about it. They can rally up support from their allies and keep Chinese companies from gaining any international adoption. Look at how they got Meng from Huawei arrested - it was almost unreal. This is how the world works today…

the quantity matters, and it's very clear that China did it a lot more. Also, Meng got arrested because we are in a state of law and she broke the law, not because some despot chose to

Technically, she got arrested because the UZS is of the opinion that she broke one of their laws. I'd wager she'd get released because Trump has suggested that the move is (or could be used for) political leverage (whether that's true or not), or because Canada doesn't have the same laws and so we might not extradite.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#123

Post by whynotminot »

largehotcoffee wrote: post #110
thetechlead wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In China, stealing trade secrets is called “打破技术封锁” (breaking the technical blockade). Wow. This is a blatant lie. Where did you get this piece? The Chinese phrase means developing the technology to a certain level that an embargo no longer works as intended. There are plenty examples in space technologies - US prohibits NASA collaboration with China and there are indigenous innovation breakthrough from within like…

>Simply put, Huawei's products have better quality and companies in the US can't compete with it. >I'm now typing on a Huawei Matebook 13 and carrying a Huawei Mate 10 phone. Those things have amazing quality and it's a real pity customers can't have them in the States. You have an interesting post history supporting Huawei for an account only a month old...

This kind of thing is becoming really common lately. Not just Chinese companies doing this -- Qualcomm shills have been relentless whenever there's new press out regarding their legal battle with Apple, for example.

I wonder if it's just part of the "package" when a company buys the services of a marketing or PR company these days. Maybe before it was just a few phone calls to some editors to get some puff pieces in magazines and an ad campaign.

Now it's those things too, but also a massive online wave of comments across the web and social media to push a narrative in a certain direction.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#124

Post by baroffoos »

dazilcher wrote: post #65
baroffoos wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Inventions could be publicly funded and then the findings be made available to everyone. We already pay for all the inventions we use indirectly so why not just fund them to begin with and actually have access to this information.

And where are these unlimited funds you speak of? I have a few crazy ideas of my own, that I'm willing to pursue on someone else's dime.

We have the ability to automate almost everything needed for life. It seems realistic that you could spend all your time working on crazy ideas and cost no one a minute of their time.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#125

Post by resters »

malandrew wrote: post #95
vkou wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

It's really simple. I and many others quite enjoy the peripheral benefits of living the world's #1 economy. We're #1 because of size and productivity per capita. If another country with a larger population matched us in productivity, they would be the #1 economy and would get benefits that I and many others living in the US enjoy. One of those benefits is generally spreading democratic ideals and promoting natural ri…

You seem to be unaware of the economic literature on trade. Without a doubt, trade barriers harm the public, regardless of which government initiated them (or reciprocates them).

The rest of your post recites the American Exceptionalist narrative, which a lot of people believe in like a religion (not saying you do).

But what evidence would it take to change your view? What if the main purpose of intelligence agencies was to conduct industrial espionage on behalf of US firms? What if government intervention in trade (forbidding private firms and individuals from free choice) was making the US worse off every year? What if China’s leaders are significantly more wise and judicious than our own? What if China’s people are actually more aligned with enlightenment values than most Americans?

The values you mention are found only in political speeches and propaganda messages. The US is the biggest state sponsor of terrorism worldwide, the biggest threat to peace, the biggest danger to our natural resources, and the most egregious violator of human rights in many many years.

Our leaders try to instill fear and skepticism about foreigners, but most Americans have much much more in common with the average Chinese person than we do with our own leaders.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#126

Post by tossaccount123 »

gruez wrote: post #97
tossaccount123 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But if this is just a bargaining chip to be exchanged for a few worthless face-saving trade deal "wins" for this administration, it will be disgrace If letting one person off the hook can benefit all americans through better trade, how is that a disgrace? China has apparently offered to balance the trade deficit with the US within 6 years https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-01-18/china-is-... their economy…

>If letting one person off the hook can benefit all americans through better trade, how is that a disgrace? it's a disgrace for the rule of law and an independent judiciary.

lol, our justice system has been a joke for a long time. James Clapper and John Brennan are walking free after violating every American's constitutional rights and then lying to congress about it. Meanwhile Edward Snowden is a wanted criminal around the world for exposing their rape of the US constitution and roger stone has his house raided by 29 FBI agents with CNN filming in the driveway for lying to congress.

There's a Navy veteran rotting in Jail right now for taking a picture of his sub on his last day because it was technically classified info. Hillary Clinton is enjoying life despite having hundreds of pieces of classified info on her server

There are two tiers of justice in our country, get used to it. At least in this case it would benefit the average american

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#127

Post by tossaccount123 »

vkou wrote: post #87
yumraj wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know who you are or what your agenda is, but any sane person would argue that citing something that happened in early 1800s does not make the same thing OK in 2019.

Why not? China is ~200 years late in industrializing, mostly because of centuries of colonial plunder (And a few decades of communist misrule). There's a very simple formula for getting your country caught up to the rest of the world. Steal as much as you can, until you pull yourself up to the level of your neighbours. Every developed nation has either done this, or piggy-backed off a bigger neighbour who has. Just b…

>And it works, too. Look at the quality of life in China, compared to India... Or Vietnam.

You're basically saying crime pays if you can get away with it. Everybody knows this, the thing is that eventually you can't get away with it anymore, which is what China is learning now as their economy gets crushed by tariffs and the world unites against them

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#128

Post by jujulet »

sovietmudkipz wrote: post #36
baroffoos wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sharing knowledge and advancing technology for everyone is something to be proud of. Society needs to end the practice of hoarding private knowledge.

I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations. If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual. It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer. Why would any fa…

> I think the idea behind intellectual property is to encourage people to take risks associated with developing something new and profit through their innovations.

No, the idea is to prevent other people from profiting through 'claimed' innovations.

> If all new discoveries were the property of the state/public then there wouldn't be a high incentive to be inventive for any given individual.

Most innovation is not done for money. It's done by people with genuine interest in the subject, often earning less than an average professional in the field. The vast majority of valuable R&D for computer(s/ing) came, and still comes from the public sector.

> It's like if everyone was a farmer but everything harvested was immediately taken from the farmer.

Why is it that intellectual property proponents always try to make analogies using physical property? Copying != moving/deleting. If I was a farmer and along came some poor hungry people that saw me farming, learned from it, then went and farmed their own land, I would have no problem with that.

> Why would any farmer put in effort to increase yield when they would not profit from their extra effort?

If we're talking about innovation, then because it could make farming easier, safer, more enjoyable, healthier, etc.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#129

Post by mikejb »

mc32 wrote: post #120
mikejb wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you will find there are lots of Chinese nationalist stories about their hero technician / scientists steal western technologies. They are literally proud of it. Reminds me of the movie "Firefox" [1] with Clint Eastwood. The plot? An all-American hero sneaks deep into the UDSSR to steal a new high-tech aircraft. And I'm pretty sure Hollywood is still pumping out ideological crap like that. [1] https://www.imdb.com/t…

One thing was a movie, the other actually happens. One in the context of a Cold War the world is better off we, the West, won. The other to aid a non democratic regime. Also, we (and the Soviets) should have every right to defend against industrial espionage.

> One thing was a movie, the other actually happens.

Fair point on the comparison, but industrial espionage isn't a one-way street.

Re: U.S. Accuses Huawei of Stealing Trade Secrets, Defrauding Banks

#130

Post by [deleted] »

danudey wrote: post #122
make3 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the quantity matters, and it's very clear that China did it a lot more. Also, Meng got arrested because we are in a state of law and she broke the law, not because some despot chose to

Technically, she got arrested because the UZS is of the opinion that she broke one of their laws. I'd wager she'd get released because Trump has suggested that the move is (or could be used for) political leverage (whether that's true or not), or because Canada doesn't have the same laws and so we might not extradite.

[deleted]
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