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Oracle’s Java 11 trap

blog.joda.org

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121–130 of 244 posts

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#121

Post by djsumdog »

baud147258 wrote: post #7

Java 11? At work we haven't even started to look at the migration from Java 8...

The hell? You should just be able to take your code and compile and run it on Java 8. There aren't any major comparability breaks. Just try switching JVMs and run all your unit/integration tests (you do have tests right?)

Java 9 is the one that breaks nearly everything. We attempted Java 9 at our last shop and almost every dependency we used had some exception from a removed deprecated function down there in the stack.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#122

Post by scirocco »

danpalmer wrote: post #88
JoshuaAshton wrote: post #24

Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. They're actively hostile to the whole tech community and their entire business model is based on trapping people into paying for things by not making their licenses clear or changing their licenses. I don't know why anyone would use any software made by Oracle these days, the alternatives and open implementations of their own systems ten…

> Oracle seriously needs to be fought in court about this and their other actions. The problem is that very few companies have the desire or resources to do this. The community certainly doesn't have the resources. We'd need tens of millions of dollars of legal resources to fight their terrible behaviour.

We don't need legal resources

Customers' wallets will decide their faith

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#123

Post by sgt »

This is not new, and as per: https://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/license... it was put in place in 2017 already. Seeing that the "LICENSE" of Java 8 simply points to their website, it means that they effectively changed it for Java 8 as well.

So that means that even if you're running Java, you have three options: (1) Continue using it illegally, it will probably be a low risk. This is not advisable especially for larger corporates. (2) Purchase JDK license (3) Switch to OpenJDK

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#125

Post by vbezhenar »

LaGrange wrote: post #108
dnomad wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is that possible? Are you going to the Oracle download page and downloading the RPMs? Are you specifically adding a repository that includes Oracle software? There are certainly no default repositories that include this code. The whole point (and it's been this way for years) is that you can't download the Oracle jdk without clicking through a license.

It's fairly common to automate that stuff away, and not just for Oracle. For example, if agreeing to TOS was neccessary, Let's Encrypt could no longer be "totally automated". Therefore certbot has an "--agree-tos" option, present in oh so many ansible repositories.

How do you automate that? You need some kind of cookie to download JDK and you're getting it by clicking a button. The only way to automate it is to simulate "agree" click.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#126

Post by djsumdog »

MaxBarraclough wrote: post #18
paradox_hunter wrote: post #17

>You may not: use the Programs for any data processing or any commercial, production, or internal business purposes other than developing, testing, prototyping, and demonstrating your Application; From what I understood, I as a student could still use java 11 from Oracle, as I wouldn't be using it for "production". Is that correct? Or are there other implications that I am missing here?

I suspect you're right, but does Oracle JDK really add any appreciable value over OpenJDK, for a student? I'd go for OpenJDK simply to form good habits.

Yea ... and if you do start to build something and decide to release it commercially, you don't want to run into any weird Oracle/OpenJDK weirdness at that point .. so best to start with OpenJDK.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#127

Post by vbezhenar »

djsumdog wrote: post #120
cesarb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, many people add a repository with Oracle JDK to their package managers and install the JDK from there, due to some perceived better compatibility and/or extra bug fixes. (And in my experience, this is true for the Java plugin; the "official" plugin seems to work better than the IcedTea plugin.)

Confluence is an example of a piece of software that wouldn't run correctly at all under OpenJDK. Even today on the Atlasian docs, they provide a Docker image of Confluence to evaluate, but if you buy a production license, you are required to build an OracleJRE Docker container (they provide instructions) for production. It's been years and they still can't support OpenJDK ... it makes me wonder what weird proprietar…

Last time I tried to run Jira with OpenJDK, I stumbled upon some encryption algorithm not supported in OpenJDK. I didn't research further. But that was a long time ago, nowadays I bet that OpenJDK will work just as well.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#128

Post by Leace »

fnord123 wrote: post #82
Leace wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's good that package managers ship only openjdk. When I migrated to Linux I didn't know better but as "openjdk" was easier to install than Oracle JDK I used "openjdk". It turns out it works very well, actually I can't tell the difference.

OpenJDK is the reference implementation now so if you did find a functional difference, Oracle is in error.

Good to hear that!

Just in case someone is interested in references Wikipedia has them near the text:

> OpenJDK is the official reference implementation of Java SE since version 7.

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenJDK

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#129

Post by Tistel »

nsmith14 wrote: post #42
Tistel wrote: post #33

My hat is off to Larry E. with respect to his business prowess. But. ding ding ding. alarm bells. Run away. Don't mess with that guy. The dude owns an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanai https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-04-13/four-seas... Stick with free/open source. Vendor lock in is a nightmare. edited for clarity.

The dude owns an island, so he obviously can't be trusted. It follows reason.

Sorry, thats not what I meant. I was half joking/flippant. I meant to imply that Larry Ellison is very good at his job. His job is getting people locked into expensive proprietary languages (embrace and extend java) and DBs. Once your company thrives it becomes very difficult to get off their proprietary tools (which are excellent btw). Then you are forced to pay the man. I actually like the guy. His sailboat racing is really great tech.

Re: Oracle’s Java 11 trap

#130

Post by Tistel »

pimlottc wrote: post #39
Tistel wrote: post #33

My hat is off to Larry E. with respect to his business prowess. But. ding ding ding. alarm bells. Run away. Don't mess with that guy. The dude owns an island: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lanai https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2016-04-13/four-seas... Stick with free/open source. Vendor lock in is a nightmare. edited for clarity.

You should clarify that you are referring to Larry Ellison, the head of Oracle, and not Stephen Colebourne, author of the article.

You are right. I was just writing a flippant joke. The author of the post wrote a great article. I am also not insulting Larry Ellison. He (Larry E) is an interesting, very successful, guy. I am just saying he tends to win in competitions. Once you are locked in, you have to pay.
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