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Freeing the Web from the Browser

reinterpretcast.com

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Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#121
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebAssembly will no doubt give us more freedom, but still has a lot of constraints. Also, it's fundamentally a hack built on top of the browser ecosystem, not replacing browsers entirely!

I hadn't heard of Hypecard so I watched the video on it here http://www.openculture.com/2017/08/apples-hypercard-software... I seemed kind of cool but doesn't do much you can't do with webpages and javascript. Its scripting language seemed much easier to do some things with than javascript though. I kind of imagine WebAssembly will go the other way and make things more complicated.

> I seemed kind of cool but doesn't do much you can't do with webpages and javascript. Its scripting language seemed much easier to do some things with than javascript though.

In our current developer culture we tend to view things less holistically and more in terms of this-or-that language or system. Hypercard (which was composed of both the visual system and Hypertalk) was one holistic system that fit extremely well with personal computing of the early to mid 90s (which is why recreations of Hypercard on today's machine miss the point).

This was a completely different view of personal computing, one that sought to reduce the chasm between "developer/programmer" and "user". Hypercard allowed authoring in the computing medium, and did so by permitting users take advantage of what was new about computing as opposed to other older media. In fact, they were called "authors" and there were thousand of them — most of them weren't professional programmers.

There is a lot that hypercard could do that the modern web cannot. I cannot copy and paste a button — retaining all of its internal functionality in a different context — from one web page to my own (at least not without a lot of trouble). This was the de facto way to get started in Hypercard.

Hypertalk is another interesting part of bridging the divide. It is difficult for entrenched programmers to reckon with because it's more like natural English and (unlike most programming languages) is easier to read than it is to write. But for regular people it makes sense.

Final point: everything good about computing is about metaphors. Hypercard had one of the best metaphors since spreadsheets: the concept of stacks, cards, and objects on cards. That's all there was and it was easy to understand how these pieces interact. The web does not have anything like this for its "authors" because it is inherently unfriendly to them.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#122
We do have a way to create links between two documents without editing either document: create a new document that links to both documents. This is a normal, though informal, activity.

And of course simply linking two documents together isn't that useful, you have to say WHY they are linked. I.e., the semantic triple (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semantic_triple) of subject–predicate–object, or maybe more informally you are simply saying X relates to Y because of Z, where Z is akin to the predicate.

Currently in HTML hypertext we're stuffing Z into the link text, which sometimes works nicely and sometimes works very poorly. But in an external document you have all the space you want to explain the relation between the documents.

Obviously there's lots of shortcomings of adding a new document to the web to explain every relation between existing documents. But I think it's a good starting point. We're missing things like:

1. Reliable deep linking to documents. We have ids, YouTube timestamps, etc., but finding these is an ad hoc process and they aren't always available.

2. Widespread transclusion tools. We actually have some now, in the form of link previews or OEmbed. When you post a link in a comment or post on Twitter or Facebook, they effectively transclude the link into the document. Not fully interactive, but it might be a better balance between linking and viewing than traditional/literal transclusion.

3. Discovery of these annotations or commentary. There's a hard CS problem here, to maintain privacy while also trying to find serendipitous results. Maybe it involves pre-loading lists of documents from the locations you want to "discover" from. Maybe it requires some understanding of privacy levels, or whether content is personalized or public. Or we use the technique we have now: lead with commentary, with no attempt to discover it after the fact. I.e., I know there are comments on https://www.reinterpretcast.com/open-hypermedia at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17690865 because I found the document on https://news.ycombinator.com/news – is serendipity even a thing in a place as large as the web?

4. Maybe publishing tools... do I want to post a Tweet to describe every relation I see? But maybe I do, because even if organic discovery is possible I probably also want to publish a feed of my own annotations, and I want to be part of a community of people doing this, and Twitter is a reasonable example of this.

5. Some sort of representation of these links when they've been found. Even without fancy discovery this is necessary. Right now if I click on a link from a post like: "OMG this is the stupidest argument ever: http://example.com/some-stupid-document" it will look like any other page I've opened. Only if I remember well why I clicked on the link will I understand that I've been offered something with derision. The browser has to do something here, all it has currently is the back button to understand why you've gotten somewhere (and that doesn't even work consistently in these cases).

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This site works because of the small numbers of people who are educated and there's sensible moderation.

Yes, precisely. So, it can be done.

So what? I should start reading Nazi's comments on other sites now?

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#124

We almost got there with Pingbacks being the first step. Then they devolved into meaningless spam. Without a system of manual curation, it's impossible to build something where _everyone_ contributes. Spam scales easily, and moderation and curation does not. A thousand good links buried under a million spam links don't add any value. And we can talk about reputation and proof of stake systems until we're blue in the…

I never understood that; PoW seems like not merely an elegant solution, but a simple one. What am I missing?

Not everyone has CPU cycles to waste, like users on mobile. Even then, the cost of a consumer contributing one connection is an amount of work that's totally tractable by a spammer.

Unless you get into tokens and paying money to contribute. Which defeats the purpose. Why would I pay money to contribute to a decentralized service?

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#125

oh boy it's the semantic web all over again. it's appalling the lack of citations of the copious corpus that exists and the fact that it's never named for what it is. "what is really lacking — in my view — is research considering the human factors at play" there you go, if someone is interested in the topic, some citation back from 2005 which should be enough to find more references and research http://kmr.nada.kth.s…

To be clear, I’m familiar with the semantic Web and did a reasonable chunk of reading about it when doing this research, but view it as only tangentially related to the ideas I talk about here. If you’re looking for citations around this work, check the full dissertation — there are plenty.

Thanks. It's not clear in the article that this is based on another work. Can you provide a link? Reading the article I too thought linked data was noticeably absent.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#126
post #17
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It did exist and was decently popular in the 2000s... The name escapes me. It was a firefox plugin ...

Was it Annozilla?

perhaps. I'm hazarding a guess that I found it from slashdot and the slashdot search comes up with nothing for that.. so maybe not.

But what i'm thinking of definitely added a drawing overlay and a chat capability to any arbitrary page.

it was fun for a while to just turn on the plugin to see if any chatter was happening at a specific url on the internet.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#127
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

http://hypothes.is/

Right; we just need everybody, everywhere to adopt hypothes.is; instead of one of all the other competitors. Adopting a single protocol by the masses is something that rarely works. It's much easier to gain critical mass if a server platform (like Wordpress) included an annotation module as part of its default modules, so that it appeared at many websites as soon as they update to the latest version. Then, it could c…

Not at all. You can adopt it by yourself.

There aren't any competitors.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#128
post #3

Although this talks about freeing the web from a browser, this seems like a pretty good case for a augmenting the browser experience. The first thing being a browser plugin that ignores all links (which is probably a good default for anyone interested in reading an article and not getting distracted), then it just allows a layer on top for highlighting sections creating your own links. I expect this probably already…

Author here. It’s definitely true that extending existing browsers is the fastest route to this kind of behaviour (though it’s not clear to me if it’s the best route). In fact, if you squint a bit (or maybe a lot), it could be argued that with application-specific URL schemes we kind-of sort-of already have the primitives we need to make something like this work. Practically, though, if you want the multi-program sid…

The multi-program facet of this reminds me of Plan9's [plumber](http://doc.cat-v.org/plan_9/4th_edition/papers/plumb) concept, which is an OS component allowing communication between programs in the form of "plumbing messages". The plumber processes plumbing messages according to a rules file, passing them on to other applications. This rules file allows the user to easily configure which piece of data gets delivered where in a uniform fashion.

Plan9's plumber was mostly text data oriented, but it could in principle work with any kind of resource (images, audio files, documents). It seems naturally extensible to URIs. It goes a bit deeper than your idea by saying URIs and browsers aren't special and that all kinds of data should be plumbed between all kinds of applications (for instance, a text editor detecting a DOI in a text file and converting it into a clickable link that sends a plumbing message to the browser, which would then open the corresponding doi.org page).

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