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Freeing the Web from the Browser

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81–90 of 128 posts

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#81
post #10

While this is somewhat cool, I have a few comments: > The Web is, without a doubt, the most powerful research tool currently available to man. No longer must researchers comb through endless indices and catalogues to find what they are looking for. True, but most people aren't researchers. Heck, I think most people don't even know what indices are :) > The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are mere…

Hey, most people just use Windows as the only OS and we still have Linux. Making the world a better place by forcing a majority of people being smart is much more hard and subtle than creating intuitive and expressive learning materials and IMO it should be left for economists.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#82

I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet. Eg. I open some research paper and I click "comments" in web browsers. And I see comments from /r/machinelearning, hackernews etc. Also real time chat would be awesome to have for each of websites. Nowadays it work for me like this - found something interesting X - type "X site:myforum" in google to learn more about it F…

>I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet.

Well you have it right now. One-way hyperlinks are just enough for that. We have HN, Reddit (Digg, Slashdot etc.) and many others.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" it's the Comments section of any blog-shaped site." Something I never read on any site. It's just pure racism/muppets talking shit. If there were a plugin to block them I'd use it; I feel dirty even knowing they're down there. L

You're reading the comments section of a website right now. Places like Ars Technica or Stack Exchange have a healthy environment in the comments section, so it can be done.

This site works because of the small numbers of people who are educated and there's sensible moderation.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#84
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" it's the Comments section of any blog-shaped site." Something I never read on any site. It's just pure racism/muppets talking shit. If there were a plugin to block them I'd use it; I feel dirty even knowing they're down there. L

I always read them on any site. I want to know even about racism and muppets talking shit, rather than be surprised when it appears in real life. And usually it's just real people, living real comments, from their own viewpoints.

No, I'm talking about actual Nazis, racists, climate change deniers, conspiracy theorist and other idiots. I'm more than familiar with their "typing" - I don't need to see it at the bottom of every story I read.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#85
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" it's the Comments section of any blog-shaped site." Something I never read on any site. It's just pure racism/muppets talking shit. If there were a plugin to block them I'd use it; I feel dirty even knowing they're down there. L

> Something I never read on any site. I feel sorry for you - the original early-'00 blogosphere was actually very good, with all sorts of people building connections and intelligent debate through comments. After a while, the conversation was so deep that comments ended up being too short, so they had to define Pingbacks so that people could post elsewhere while still connecting with the source material. And then spa…

I remember those blogs. Somewhere between Usenet and Facebook. I found the ping back things annoying. If I remember rightly it was four or five pages of a copy of the first line of the article plus a link to someone else's blog but with no reason given for why I'd want to roll my sleeves up and start clicking on them.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#86
post #61
post #10

While this is somewhat cool, I have a few comments: > The Web is, without a doubt, the most powerful research tool currently available to man. No longer must researchers comb through endless indices and catalogues to find what they are looking for. True, but most people aren't researchers. Heck, I think most people don't even know what indices are :) > The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are mere…

I also disagree with the premise that research happens on hypertexts. When you do research you need to concentrate on the lecture at hand in-depth, not get lost in a web of references breadth-first style.

I read notes, bibliography, and index first. In that order. The more hypertext-like a work, the better, though it should be sufficiently self-contained that the references are supplementary.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#87
post #53

I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet. Eg. I open some research paper and I click "comments" in web browsers. And I see comments from /r/machinelearning, hackernews etc. Also real time chat would be awesome to have for each of websites. Nowadays it work for me like this - found something interesting X - type "X site:myforum" in google to learn more about it F…

> I would love a web where you can comment with your forum circle on any URI available on internet. This would be automatically available if hyperlinks were two way connections. All that would be needed is a culture of linking to what you commented about. Which, I would guess, would have happened in such a web, because it would be a no brainer that any cool tool provides that. Much like the share buttons for SN we ha…

A key element of Nelson's Xanadu.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#88
post #67

Most saddening, perhaps, is the way in which the Web constrains the use of links. For example: although the link is the primary form of reference on the Web, underpinning the tangle of connections that make the system so useful, the ability to create new links is a privilege granted only to content producers. The vast majority of those interested in a piece of work are merely readers, unable to contribute, only to co…

http://hypothes.is/

Seems to be something the author would like. Then again, hypothesis is a browser extension..

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#89
"Different people have different perspectives on how information should be connected, so why do we not allow these range of perspectives to be represented and shared digitally? Why limit ourselves to just one point of view?

...

Why re-create code editors, simulators, spreadsheets, and more in the browser when we already have native programs much better suited to these tasks?"

The title is something I contemplated and began to address long ago, only on a personal level.

With respect to the first question, perhaps this goes to the poor mechanism promoted by Google, to rank the www's contents by "popularity".

This mechanism obviously succeeds for purposes of measuring www user opinion and selling advertising (the later not anticipated by the founders in the early years). However it falls short in the non-commercial context, e.g., the academic setting out of which the company grew. Anyone remember "Knol"?

Today Google search (and probably others seeking to emulate its commercial success) intentionally promote a pattern of usage of their cache/database where its users never reach "page 2" of search results. The company has built their ad sales business on the idea that one perspective ("the top search result") should not only prevail but also that, optimally, other results need not even be considered. It should be obvious that in a non-commercial research context, this is not optimal.

If the www is 100% commercial then of course this is not an issue. But "the www" is difficult to define. All httpd's on any accessible network? All httpd's listening on accessible addresses with corresponding ICANN-registered domainnames? All pages crawled by a commercial bot, deposited in a commercial www cache and made accessible to the public? And so on. In any event, if users only view the www's supposed contents through the lense of a commercial entity, the perception of what the www actually comprises may be manipulated in a way that suits commercial interests, e.g. the sale of advertising.

As to the second question, when given the choice I do not use a popular web browser. The author mentions the utility of "native programs". I would prefer the term "dedicated programs". Programs that perform essentially one task, or "do one thing". Whether such programs can perform their dedicated tasks better than an omnibus-styled program that performs many, varied tasks is a question for the user to decide. For example, the author answers that native programs are "better suited" than the web browser.

The "web browser" has become a conglomeration of once dedicated programs.

There are such dedicated programs for making TCP connections over which HTTP commands can be sent and www content retrieved. This is a task that web browsers can perform, although some users may prefer a dedicated program. In this way content retrieval can be separated from content consumption, alleviating many of the www annoyances such as user tracking, manipulation and advertising.

Re: Freeing the Web from the Browser

#90
We almost got there with Pingbacks being the first step. Then they devolved into meaningless spam. Without a system of manual curation, it's impossible to build something where _everyone_ contributes. Spam scales easily, and moderation and curation does not. A thousand good links buried under a million spam links don't add any value.

And we can talk about reputation and proof of stake systems until we're blue in the face, but so far, nothing exists that actually works. If it did, we'd already be using it.

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