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Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

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Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#121
Magnesium is very important. Magnesium deficient rats were shown to have decreased melatonin.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17172005/

It's also protective against hypercalcemia, so if you're taking vitamin D, make sure you're getting enough magnesium.

I've even read that magnesium alone can mitigate the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#122

I regularly take long haul flights (12+ hours) and take Melatoin for Jet Lag. I'll take twice. With the flights I take this usually works out to before sleeping on the plane (which ideally is the same/close to bed-time at the destination). And then the first night at the destination. In combination with other tricks -- I've found it really effective.

What are the other tricks, I’ve always found jet lag horrendous.

I also use Melatonin for jetlag, but I usually prefer to do it just for the first and second night at the destination. On 12+ hrs flight I prefer a bland sleeping aid, as it is not directly working on the circadian rhythm (or at least that’s my experience). Other useful tricks:

- ban alcohol altogether the day of the flight an possibly one day before and one after

- order a special vegan meal during the flight, even if you’re not vegan. They’ll serve you first and you’ll have more time to organize your sleeping schedule on board, plus you’ll stay more hydrated as the meal will usually include more veggies. - stay hydrated constantly, I’d dare say even over hydrated

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Daily dose, have been for ~6 years now, not religiously - when traveling for less than a week I usually don’t take any with me, and I deliberately take a couple of weeks off every year to see if it still makes any difference (after 2-4 weeks, it starts becoming harder to fall asleep again, after which I wait another week and restart). 50,000 daily for a month is toxic, though afaik 20,000 has no “period of time it be…

Do you also take magnesium?

Yes; regular 400mg elemental magnesium (in chelated form)/day, and occasionally (e.g. after serious exercise) an additional teaspoon - 300-600mg elemental, in citrate form -- I find it keeps the muscles feeling much better (in a way that increasing the dose of chelated form does not -- even though the latter is supposed to be much more bioavailable).

I have never thought about the calcification angle that you mentioned in another thread, I'm just constantly experimenting since my teens, and keeping the things that seem to improve my well being (with the occasional breaks to guarantee I'm not overdosing/accumulating, and also to see that it still helps).

How much magnesium do you add to your D3?

(and, if anyone is going to try magnesium citrate or magnesium oxide as a result of this post - I highly recommend building up your dose from very little, and doing that on days where you have easy access to a bathroom - in the beginning, bioavailability is low, but it does relax your bowel muscles ... and even after your bioavailability rises, will happen with excess amounts)

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#124
post #95
post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

D3 should be taken for small periods. Note that these supplements, do not make up for self-produced substances. I would like to ask you if instead of using melatonin to enhance your sleep, did you try physical exercise. If your body is physically tired and you abstain from screens (iPads, iPhones, etc.) for 2h before sleeping, you should be able to get a decent amount of sleep. Additionally, sleep quality doesn’t tra…

I don't exercise regularly, and I really should. My issue is I always feel too tired to exercise in the morning, and I feel like I have trouble falling asleep if I exercise in the evening. But I'm starting to think that exercising late isn't the problem now. I'll try what you recommend. It's really hard to abstain from screens, too. I'm definitely not doing that. I'll try doing nothing other than reading actual books…

If you don’t like Cardio like me I can’t recommend https://stronglifts.com enough. It’s been really fun slowly building up strength and I’m squatting 105kg now. Improves my mood and sleep no end.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you also take magnesium?

Yes; regular 400mg elemental magnesium (in chelated form)/day, and occasionally (e.g. after serious exercise) an additional teaspoon - 300-600mg elemental, in citrate form -- I find it keeps the muscles feeling much better (in a way that increasing the dose of chelated form does not -- even though the latter is supposed to be much more bioavailable). I have never thought about the calcification angle that you mention…

I honestly just go by how I'm feeling. If I'm tense or restless, I might take some magnesium citrate before bed to help me sleep. If I'm feeling dehydrated or constipated, I'll take some magnesium citrate or an electrolyte drink packet with magnesium and potassium salts. If I'm anxious, I can take an epsom salt bath.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#126
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really think it works in the same way for humans. I have been doing it for decades and I can assure you that my body fat increases if I overeat.

Have you been doing TRE in 8 hour intervals? There was a study on this as well, and it turns out a lot of people simply think they are doing TRE, but once they start writing down exactly what they eat and exactly when, turns out it's far away from TRE. I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories, but I keep an open mind for now until someone can refute it. The blood sugar thi…

>I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories

Counting just the calories ignores second order effect, and diet is all about second order effects.

If one could absolutely stick to counting the calories and eating the specified amount, of course one would lose weight.

But e.g. a diet of only having 1500 calories of broccoli for 1 year, and one would be ill from lack of tons of nutrients and vitamins (and they'd have stopped much earlier anyway).

E.g. if one eats certain kinds of foods, your appetite increases and it's more likely to overeat. Not giving one's self some foods they like, also makes it easier and more tempting to break a diet. And lots of other factors (exercise, hydration, nutrition, and so on) unrelated with counting calories, that still affect what we eat and how we process it.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#127
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you been doing TRE in 8 hour intervals? There was a study on this as well, and it turns out a lot of people simply think they are doing TRE, but once they start writing down exactly what they eat and exactly when, turns out it's far away from TRE. I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories, but I keep an open mind for now until someone can refute it. The blood sugar thi…

> I've always believed in the law of thermodynamics myself - counting just the calories Counting just the calories ignores second order effect, and diet is all about second order effects. If one could absolutely stick to counting the calories and eating the specified amount, of course one would lose weight. But e.g. a diet of only having 1500 calories of broccoli for 1 year, and one would be ill from lack of tons of…

One / your / it / we: make up your mind on pronoun and stick with it!

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#128
post #80

Melatonin has genuinely changed my life in regards to sleep. I'd tried everything and for exams went on Zopiclone, and then found the gold that is Melatonin. Thoroughly recommend anyone with suitable problems sleeping giving it a go. (I was DSPD, though every so often did the whole "Non-24-Hour-Sleep Disorder" thing)

How much do you take? I was regularly taking 3mg and 1.5mg regularly for most of the past 4 years. I recently tried 0.3mg (as recommended in another recent HN discussion about melatonin, I think it was a week or 2 ago), and I had terrible results. On 1.5mg and 3mg, I would have very unsettling and memorable dreams, as well as wake up very tired, but I would get at least 7 hours of sleep on most nights. With 0.3mg, I…

It's anecdotal, but D3 actually messes up my sleep and leads to the symptoms you're describing. I've read similar reports on reddit and forums.

Try to lay off D3, and try to take more magnesium citrate separately, this helped me.

Apparently, half-life of D3 is about 3 weeks, so if you've been taking it for awhile, you can have a lot of it in your body all the time. I'm not a scientist, but my best guess is that since D3 is meant to be released under sunlight, too much of it could be doing something to interfere with your sleep.

Again, just a layman's guess, but true in my personal experience.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#129

I never took it because I read a long time ago that it causes your body to decrease melatonin production long term. I guess that’s just a myth because people in this thread seem very positive about using it long term.

In the long term, your body produces less melatonin as part of aging.

Re: Melatonin: Much More Than You Wanted to Know

#130

Magnesium is very important. Magnesium deficient rats were shown to have decreased melatonin. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/17172005/ It's also protective against hypercalcemia, so if you're taking vitamin D, make sure you're getting enough magnesium. I've even read that magnesium alone can mitigate the symptoms of vitamin D deficiency.

Magnesium is important, many people are deficient, supplementation is cheap and supplementation is very unlikely to cause harm (as long as you keep it to max 300 mg of elemental Mg (e.g. 2g of magnesium citrate) a day). Like with vitamin D, you should have very good reasons not to chose to take a magnesium supplement.
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