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Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

nytimes.com

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Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#121

Post by emodendroket »

ofrzeta wrote: post #117

I had that discussion several times. Last time I was told that apple juice is less healthy than apples because of the fibres (missing in the juice). After I have done some "research" on my own I found out that 100g Apple only contains 1g of fiber, so I guess the difference can't be that huge. In animal testing it was found that mice who ate a diet that included apples had up to 50 percent less tumors. Now the exact s…

Try making some fresh juice and see how many apples it takes to make a glass of apple juice

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#122

Post by emodendroket »

code_duck wrote: post #101
indecisive_user wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s hard to believe that the juice of 5 apples, a bunch of chard, a beet, 2 carrots, a stick of ginger and some celery would harm me or children. Is this what each person gets or what you share with your children? That juice alone would contain around 100g of sugar, which regardless of where it comes from would be a lot for a single person, especially considering it won't be their only source of sugar in a day. Th…

My definition of fresh squeezed juice is putting whole fruit into a juicer. As far as 100g of sugar, yes, and that hypothetical stack of produce which is more than one person, especially a kid, would consume in a serving. And how much is in one can of Coke, which I’ve seen people give their children? 35 grams? In a far less healthy form, with anti-nutrients and no vitamins. This was the point of half my comment. No,…

Isn't the fact that you can consume way more fruit than normal through juice precisely the problem?

If you're thinking about a meal replacement, rather than a replacement for water, a smoothie would probably be more filling (although still not as much as fresh fruit, I don't think).

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#123

Post by orev »

emodendroket wrote: post #120
orev wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re rolling too many things into one here. The concept that fat makes people fat as a direct consequence is false, but only if the calories gained from that fat are reduced elsewhere. Fat contains very dense calories, so consuming fat can lead to too many calories which leads to getting fat. That is not to say that a diet should be devoid of fat and replaced with sugar, just that the overall diet needs to be balan…

Milk is homogenized so I am not sure how close 3.5% is to ideal. But I would say that humans are probably pretty well adapted to drinking their milk because they've been doing it for millennia. The thing about fat is that it can increase feelings of satiety.

> But I would say that humans are probably pretty well adapted to drinking their milk because they've been doing it for millennia.

Only humans of Northern European descent. Everyone else is lactose intolerant after they are weaned.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#124

Post by thatthatis »

ofrzeta wrote: post #117

I had that discussion several times. Last time I was told that apple juice is less healthy than apples because of the fibres (missing in the juice). After I have done some "research" on my own I found out that 100g Apple only contains 1g of fiber, so I guess the difference can't be that huge. In animal testing it was found that mice who ate a diet that included apples had up to 50 percent less tumors. Now the exact s…

Closer to 2.5g-3g Fiber.

The major effect isn’t how much fiber, but that the sugar is trapped in a matrix of fiber and water. Your digestive system has to tear away the outer layers to get to the sugar, this slows the absorption of the sugar and reduces the glycemic index.

In juice the matrix has been mechanically separated so the glycemic effect is almost exactly the same as eating ten spoonfuls of white sugar.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#125

Post by thatthatis »

code_duck wrote: post #101
indecisive_user wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it’s hard to believe that the juice of 5 apples, a bunch of chard, a beet, 2 carrots, a stick of ginger and some celery would harm me or children. Is this what each person gets or what you share with your children? That juice alone would contain around 100g of sugar, which regardless of where it comes from would be a lot for a single person, especially considering it won't be their only source of sugar in a day. Th…

My definition of fresh squeezed juice is putting whole fruit into a juicer. As far as 100g of sugar, yes, and that hypothetical stack of produce which is more than one person, especially a kid, would consume in a serving. And how much is in one can of Coke, which I’ve seen people give their children? 35 grams? In a far less healthy form, with anti-nutrients and no vitamins. This was the point of half my comment. No,…

Fresh squeezed won’t be appreciably healthier (on the sugar dimension). What makes juice unhealthy compared to intact fruits and vegetables is the mechanical separation of sugar from the fiber water matrix.

This makes the sugar all available instantly.

When you eat the whole carrot, your digestive system has to tear away the layers of the matrix one at a time to get the sugar out. When you juice you remove the matrix mechanically.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#126

Post by thatthatis »

projektir wrote: post #92
godzillabrennus wrote: post #7

Sugar is bad. Juice has a lot of sugar.

Calories are bad. Sugar is very calorie dense. [I'm on the lookout for direct sugar-specifically-is-bad studies so I hope to get spammed with some]

Not a study but a theory:

Sugar causes a blood sugar roller coaster with an energy crash at 2-3 hours that appears to be specifically designed to get us to over eat. In nature sugar exists in large quantities only during the short period of fruit being in season, and thus it makes sense there would be a mechanism to get us to over eat during the limited window of fruit availability.

Sugar triggers our “eat it before it rots” mechanism.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#127

Post by anothergoogler »

emodendroket wrote: post #119
anothergoogler wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not much better, calorically speaking, than soda. It's a whole lot better nutritionally. Complete juice abstinence is silly unless your child seriously struggles with weight issues. A 6oz glass once in a while isn't going to give them diabetes.

The whole point of the linked article is that juice is basically nutritionally equivalent to soda.

No, it says: "And we doubt you’d take a multivitamin if it contained 10 teaspoons of sugar." I'd sooner take that multivitamin than a pure sugar tablet. Soda has zero nutritional value.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#128

Post by WilliamEdward »

projektir wrote: post #90
WilliamEdward wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Calories-in-Calories-out is a straight-up fact. The thing 'scientists' don't like about it is that even if you lose the same amount of weight, where you got your calories from will impact your health differently depending on whether it's a chocolate bar or an apple. Nevertheless, Calories-in-Calories-out is a true model.

> where you got your calories from will impact your health differently depending on whether it's a chocolate bar or an apple Is there evidence that this is sufficiently impactful that it should be brought up? I.e., if a person is steadily losing weight, but eating not super healthy, should we tell them to stop? Overweight people often already don't eat very nutritiously so I'm not sure if it's a large impact. Basical…

It's impactful enough to be brought up because it's far more important to develop healthy eating habits than it is to lose weight in the long run. If you asked me whether it's more unhealthy to be obese than to be normal weight but eating food with no nutrients, that is something I cannot answer with evidence, but I'm inclined to say eating 5 chocolate bars a day will kill you faster.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#129

Post by emodendroket »

anothergoogler wrote: post #127
emodendroket wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The whole point of the linked article is that juice is basically nutritionally equivalent to soda.

No, it says: "And we doubt you’d take a multivitamin if it contained 10 teaspoons of sugar." I'd sooner take that multivitamin than a pure sugar tablet. Soda has zero nutritional value.

What if you drank neither, though? There's a lot of talk in the past 10 or so years about how you're not really benefiting from vitamins either because you get enough vitamins in your diet.

Re: Seriously, Juice Is Not Healthy

#130

Post by emodendroket »

_wmd wrote: post #58
daturkel wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your last note about kids being wired on sugar, while pervasive and seemingly anecdotally supported, has not been proven out in the literature. Sugar has not been conclusively found to cause hyperactivity.

Ignoring the lunacy of wasting decades of training to prove (I hope, to everyone) the blindingly obvious, this would potentially be a real fun experiment to design.

Except they did design the experiment multiple times, and found the opposite of the "obvious" result.
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