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One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

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Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#121

Post by quadrangle »

Retric wrote: post #36
makmanalp wrote: post #23

> it's one of the few regions with the right climate that is also poor enough to make laborious hand-pollination affordable It's not like I didn't know that this is how the world works, but this specific case is even more of a slap in the face. It's kinda fucked up to think that in the local specialty store merely a couple pods of vanilla (a few grams each) go for 6-7 dollars, but these folks live in poverty. But mor…

Madagascar has 2.1% unemployment and ~4.3% GDP growth rate which means doubling every 17 years though reduced by a 2.7% population growth rate. It's problems are more corruption and political than anything else.

GDP growth as a measure of economic health of a society is a bad rule.

Here's a better rule: Completely disregard any claim about economic health, sustainability, well-being etc. if it's based on GDP.

GDP is a measure that deserves no respect and the mere use of it has caused a lot of harm to the world.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#122

Post by cryptonector »

makmanalp wrote: post #23

> it's one of the few regions with the right climate that is also poor enough to make laborious hand-pollination affordable It's not like I didn't know that this is how the world works, but this specific case is even more of a slap in the face. It's kinda fucked up to think that in the local specialty store merely a couple pods of vanilla (a few grams each) go for 6-7 dollars, but these folks live in poverty. But mor…

There was no such implication.

Besides, we can reasonable expect that if (when!) labor costs go up enough I think we're likely to see automation solutions to the labor intensive portions of growing vanilla.

Your buying artificial vanilla instead of real vanulla will NOT help make people in Madagascar less poor! Indeed, it will only help make them poorer (by reducing demand for their labor). If you want to help them, you should consume more real vanilla, as that will result in more work for them, thus increasing their incomes.

Yes, we could help them even more by educating them and turning the country into, say, a software developer powerhouse. But that's not easy, and will take time. In the meantime, the only thing you can do to immediately increase their income is to consume more of what they produce.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#123

Post by twothamendment »

dflock wrote: post #58
CLGrimes wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which 5 plants are you referring to?

Probably: rice, wheat, cassava, potato, banana? You obviously need to eat some other stuff occasionally, but those plants are the staple diet for a large chunk of the world population.

It is old, but potato alone will get you pretty far: https://www.livescience.com/10163-man-eating-potatoes-2-mont...

I'd need some variety just so I didn't go insane.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#124

Post by Alex3917 »

WiseWeasel wrote: post #115
Alex3917 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they don't keep at all Supposedly they freeze pretty well actually, never tried it though. (Or at least they maintain their flavor if not their texture, which is all that matters if you're taking them out of the recipe anyway after infusing.)

You might be able to do a preparation like orange flower water, a little bit of which is really good added to that pancake batter (and lots of baked goods - often in lieu of vanilla). I'd imagine black locust flower water might be used in a similar fashion. I'm guessing flower water is the aqueous fraction of a non-alcoholic distillation. Also, black locust flower syrup is apparently a thing if you don't happen to ha…

Yeah it's pretty similar to orange flower water actually, but slightly more floral.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#125

Post by dzonga »

thx11389793 wrote: post #59
matthewwiese wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A "vanilla startup" is perhaps one of the most interesting ideas I've read in HN comments these past few weeks. If I may ask, are you from Madagascar or an expat? This is all quite new information to me so I am fascinated to learn more. Are there any sources you would recommend?

OT, but why are immigrants called expats when they're from anglophone nations?

silly wording around the streets. you're an expat if you're rich. immigrant if poor.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#126

Post by xkgt »

bokstavkjeks wrote: post #82
reificator wrote: post #4

Is that really a problem if you can supply the world's needs with 5 plants? One of the older "life hacks" is to put a teaspoon of vanilla extract in the oven to make the house smell better. Speaking from experience: don't use more than that or you will regret it. I couldn't visit their house for a week.

It's kind of a problem in that any supply problems have pretty massive effects on the price. A cyclone hit Madagascar in 2011 which significantly reduced the year's harvest, sending the prices skyrocketing [0]. Anecdotally, there was a time during 2016/2017 where my local stores couldn't even get vanilla pods. [0] https://moneyweek.com/chart-of-the-week-vanilla-could-soon-b...

In 2012, I was chatting with an south indian plantation owner. He had planned take advantage of this huge demand and setup a vanilla farm. But he lost all his investment within a year as the farm got plagued by disease. Not only is it difficult to cultivate, but it seems vanilla is also less resilient to diseases. Perhaps that explains why it is grown only few regions.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#127

Post by ams6110 »

quadrangle wrote: post #119
0xcafecafe wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One a side note, I thought of a joke where his "vanilla startup" would be far from a "vanilla" startup. And that got me curious as to why the adjective vanilla refers to anything plain. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/vanilla "For lexicographers, vanilla has more flavor than chocolate, because it adds a tasty synonym for plain to the English menu. The noun vanilla was first served up in 1662, but it took a…

FWIW, I think it's fair to push back on bad use of language even as I'm not prescriptive in general. Using "vanilla" to mean "plain" is just wrong and bad. It's possible to make plain, unflavored ice-cream. Vanilla is obviously a real flavor.

I think that ship has sailed, since the meaning has been in use for almost 50 years now.

As someone who can't stand the use of "they" as a singular pronoun, I also understand fights against the evolution of language are battles that I won't win.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#128

Post by jopsen »

tch_ wrote: post #99
DiffEq wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just because there is cheap labor here does not mean they live in poverty; in fact they do not. The cost and standard of living is much lower so the wage is not as bad as you think. Sure they don't drive BMWs and don't get their coffee at Starbucks or have a $1000 iphone but they are far from living in "poverty"; since the definition of "poverty" is poorly constructed. In any case lets say we accept they live in pove…

I'm not sure if you're trying to argue whether or not many Malagasy people live in poverty, but assuming you are: have you been to Madagascar? Much of the island's vanilla is grown in the northeast region of the country, called the SAVA region, named after the towns of Sambava, Andapa, Vohemar, and Anthala. The sole overland connection to the rest of the island is a dirt road that goes through desert and is nearly im…

Maybe if GP had said "extreme poverty" it would have been more true.

The world has lots of poverty, but we are on track to rid ourselves of extreme poverty. Hopefully, it'll keep going up from there...

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#129

Post by jopsen »

quadrangle wrote: post #121
Retric wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Madagascar has 2.1% unemployment and ~4.3% GDP growth rate which means doubling every 17 years though reduced by a 2.7% population growth rate. It's problems are more corruption and political than anything else.

GDP growth as a measure of economic health of a society is a bad rule. Here's a better rule: Completely disregard any claim about economic health, sustainability, well-being etc. if it's based on GDP. GDP is a measure that deserves no respect and the mere use of it has caused a lot of harm to the world.

Analysis with numbers is only an oppinion.

Sure, GDP isn't a perfect measure, but if grows odds it's a good thing.

Re: One Island Grows 80% of the World’s Vanilla

#130

Post by thechao »

ams6110 wrote: post #127
quadrangle wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I think it's fair to push back on bad use of language even as I'm not prescriptive in general. Using "vanilla" to mean "plain" is just wrong and bad. It's possible to make plain, unflavored ice-cream. Vanilla is obviously a real flavor.

I think that ship has sailed, since the meaning has been in use for almost 50 years now. As someone who can't stand the use of "they" as a singular pronoun, I also understand fights against the evolution of language are battles that I won't win.

“They” as a singular, gender neutral, pronoun dates back to the 14th c. Practically every word you use postdates its use that way. The use of “literally” to mean “figuratively” is nearly as old.
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