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At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

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Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#121
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The US" no longer uses anti-personnel mines outside the Korean DMZ (which is actually managed by the South Koreans). The US does not deploy them anywhere, and hasn't for years. Maybe its India and Pakistan we're thinking of, hm?

The comment was about mines left behind from the Vietnam war, not present day.

Actually the comment was about present-day 'the US'.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#122

I was surprised by how much war footage and gut-wrenching videos I could find online. More people should be exposed to those documents as a form of shock therapy. It gives weight and meaning to words so effortlessly spoken by our leaders. It might also help young people have a little more empathy for actual individuals, as opposed to abstract demographics. The article reminds me of War against War! . It's a 1924 anti…

I would argue that shocking young children or even teenagers may not necessarily help empathy. Empathy is a cognitive skill whose capacity is greatly reduced in children simply because of the way the brain develops. I would argue what is instead best is to acknowledge that and have lessons be based on helping children empathize with the great tragedy that occurred, in personal ways, or even help them wrap their heads around the sheer horror of it. It is unlikely they are fully capable but if they can develop their own ideas about the horrific events that occurred and why they are bad, then as they grow older they may be able to develop empathy from there about those events. Unfortunately, I fear this is becoming more and more difficult with the recent rise of nationalism in many countries...

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe we should ask what Soviets think of their regime (most of them supported it, and still more people prefer the Soviet Union to Putin right now). That doesn't make their regime any more or less good. And how does the "other side" committing atrocities excuse your own atrocities?? That's an appalling way to attempt to self justify.

Hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese who opposed communism had their lives slaughtered. What is even remotely equivalent committed by the "other side"? EDIT to andrepd, since I can't reply to you because of post limit: You're using straw man arguments and I can't keep up. I don't know anything about East Timor but by "other side", I meant the US and South Vietnam. We're obviously discussing the Vietnam War and the par…

Are you serious right now? Do you want me to pick an example, any example? How about this one: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/East_Timor_genocide

US financed, supported, armed and gave the okay for the decimation of over 1/4 of the population of East Timor. Their crime? They were looking dangerously close to electing a left-wing government... Oh, and some mining companies may have lobbied Congress to stay on Indonesia's good side, since they had mining interests there (but this, I admit, is more speculative).

How about Guatemala? How about Iran for Christ's sake? How many thousands, hundreds of thousands, millions of people's blood is on the hands of US imperialism?

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#124
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Link: https://twitter.com/NYDailyNews/status/974073948299284481 Weird to say but now you know why people in China treasures peace a little bit more than freedom. Massacres are common during Japanese invasion[0], and nobody stood up for civilians. The result of that was people got murdered village after village and then burned or lefted there for animals. That collective experience in some degree shaped the political…

Occasionally, a few people (foreigners) did stand up for civilians, although in the scale of events, it did not have large impact. Perhaps the most peculiar of them is the story of John Rabe, "a Nazi hero". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Rabe

Rabe is one of the most famous. When book "Rabe Dairy" was published in China years ago there were memorial ceremonies. There were few if not no mentions of Nazi background though. Chinese people remember those foreigners who help them during difficult time in the war against Japanese invasion. There was a movie about an India doctor. There are statues a Canadian doctor in a lot of famous medical schools for memory of him. His home town attracted many Chinese tourists every year.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#125
post #3

How do people manage to condemn this type of thing but not the 100,000s murdered in Iraq because of the US invasion? I can't work out how Americans think being proud of their soldiers - both left and right wing people are. Is there something I don't know?

Yeah, the Iraqis were just sittin' around, doing nothin', having a Bud. Does anyone remember Kuwait?

Of course I remember Kuwait, slant-drilling under the Iraqi border. And the apparent, later denied, US tolerance or at least indifference when the Iraqi ambassador stated that Iraq would take direct action if Kuwait was not called into order.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#126
post #40

I'd also like to recommend the Ken Burns "The Vietnam War," which can be found on PBS. It is amazingly well done and the depth of it is beyond most documentaries. For example, there is one episode (1.5+ hours) that covers a six month period from 1967 to '68. I was a small child during the war (10 in '68) and (to be truthful) only somewhat remember watching the coverage on TV. My mother said I used to ask her if I was…

Seconded as well. I've yet to see the final episode, but so far it has been very good. As a non-US'an the Vietnam War was dealt with by a few paragraphs in the high school history books. Oh, and of course by watching movies like apocalypse now, full metal jacket, and, yes, Rambo 2. So it has certainly been very interesting to learn about the background, politics and the higher level military situation.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#127
post #35

So, just finished reading the article... I guess everyone should, just for the sense of thoughtfulness it should provoke. The thing is, the perpetrators started out as ordinary young American men. What tipped the balance, to turn them into stone-cold killers? It's not unique to this situation: this is what soldiers eventually tend to do. The ultimate modern example of pure, large scale monstrosity is the Red Army, at…

My friend participated in local war in 00s. They did not see much, generally sitting in trenches, but heard stories from spetsnaz guys. How anyone, including women and children could (and did) shoot at them or throw grenades after trading, smiling and handwaving. I’m not justifying orders they got there, but that definitely ruined their belief in humanity and peace, if any pre-existed. All these civilians were percei…

The same survival instinct was also shown by German soldiers returning home on leave from the Eastern Front in WW2. Many of them instinctively shot any dog they saw in the street, as they had learned to do on the front to protect themselves from dog-borne bombs.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have lived in Germany and the US each for years and for months in several other countries. From the outside or on a short visit all countries look homogeneous. Only after a while you see the subtleties. From that perspective I don't think the US is any different from other countries. Maybe other countries are in agreement on things that are contentious in the US but then they have other issues that never get discus…

I disagree, but I can’t see the value in pitting anecdote against anecdote. If you want to believe that the US’ history, geography, and demographics make it essentially the same as (to use my examples) Iceland, Japan, and Sweden, I doubt that I could change your mind.

Look at where this discussion started. It started from someone talking about the Viet Cong and the US. Then you said there is no such thing as the US because it's so big and diverse. In this context the US has to be seen as one unit or how else can you describe a war?

As far as Sweden goes I bet the people living north of the Arctic circle have little in common with people living in Stockholm.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#129
For firsthand testimony by American soldiers involved in similar operations — I cannot recommend Winter Soldier, the 1972 documentary film, highly enough.

It's something that every American adult deserves to see.

Part 1: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x67rpbi

Part 2: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x681bui

In short: The film records a 1971 Vietnam Veterans Against the War event in Detroit, where dozens of veterans spoke in public, to the media and on the record, for the first time, about war crimes that they had seen and taken part in, just months or years before.

Re: At My Lai: The Photographer Who Captured the Massacre

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree, but I can’t see the value in pitting anecdote against anecdote. If you want to believe that the US’ history, geography, and demographics make it essentially the same as (to use my examples) Iceland, Japan, and Sweden, I doubt that I could change your mind.

Look at where this discussion started. It started from someone talking about the Viet Cong and the US. Then you said there is no such thing as the US because it's so big and diverse. In this context the US has to be seen as one unit or how else can you describe a war? As far as Sweden goes I bet the people living north of the Arctic circle have little in common with people living in Stockholm.

To this day, many are maimed and killed by US land mines in the region, and the US does not give a shit.

My point is that’s it’s incorrect to speak of 330 million diverse people as collectively not giving a shit. I stand by that.

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