Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

marketwatch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 160 posts

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#121

Post by sjg007 »

psyc wrote: post #44
kmonsen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see this all the time in tech, cannot find people is usually cannot find people with the skills and experience we want for the price we are willing to pay. This will always be true if you offer less than the current market rate which startups seems to think they are entitled to.

What I've seen in tech is the idea that literally any number of false negatives is worth avoiding a single bad hire. It's fine to claim that trade-off is worth it to you, but it's ludicrous to simultaneously claim there's a shortage of talent. That's just a shortage of risk-free opportunity. Hey, I suffer from a shortage of risk-free opportunities too.

Yeah and it's a stupid idea. The problem is that the startup "idea" is probably not good enough. A company succeeds despite itself as there is no such thing as perfect execution. With a 1 year cliff you have plenty of time to figure out if someone isn't "bringing value".

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#122

Post by sjg007 »

mcguire wrote: post #106
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always hear people claiming tech is full of over-inflated salaries, then look at jobs in my area and see that people want a web-dev with 3-5 years of experience in specific frameworks and offer to pay about $82k/year. Yeah ok guys, that's pretty inflated, innit /s?

The median personal income in the US is $31-35k. The median household income was $59k last year. What exactly are the requirements for a "web developer" with 3-5 years experience? More or less than a registered nurse with 3-5 years experience (~$60k)?

RNs make 100k easy in any mid city market.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#123

Post by sjg007 »

walshemj wrote: post #81
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always hear people claiming tech is full of over-inflated salaries, then look at jobs in my area and see that people want a web-dev with 3-5 years of experience in specific frameworks and offer to pay about $82k/year. Yeah ok guys, that's pretty inflated, innit /s?

I have in the UK seen a job add in an agency for an experienced php developer at £27k next to it was for a senior "ground worker" for > £35k. A ground worker is the PC term what's known in civil engineering as a "navvy" Oh and the ground worker would get OT

You're going to have to translate what a navvy or ground worker is for us yanks.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#124

Post by dlwdlw »

psyc wrote: post #44
kmonsen wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We see this all the time in tech, cannot find people is usually cannot find people with the skills and experience we want for the price we are willing to pay. This will always be true if you offer less than the current market rate which startups seems to think they are entitled to.

What I've seen in tech is the idea that literally any number of false negatives is worth avoiding a single bad hire. It's fine to claim that trade-off is worth it to you, but it's ludicrous to simultaneously claim there's a shortage of talent. That's just a shortage of risk-free opportunity. Hey, I suffer from a shortage of risk-free opportunities too.

I've found that wherever you go there will be people you need to work with that don't live up to your own expectations and it's tempting to dehumanize them as stupid.

However since this is the case everywhere I think it's better to think about ways to mitigate this problem than try to solve it via some sort of gatekeeping. Even Google with their rigorous process has this problem.

Personally I think the inability to fire-fast because of lack of a social safety net is a core part of the problem.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#125

Post by walshemj »

sjg007 wrote: post #123
walshemj wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have in the UK seen a job add in an agency for an experienced php developer at £27k next to it was for a senior "ground worker" for > £35k. A ground worker is the PC term what's known in civil engineering as a "navvy" Oh and the ground worker would get OT

You're going to have to translate what a navvy or ground worker is for us yanks.

It's guy who digs a hole in the ground for civil engineering projects.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#126

Post by psyc »

bittercynic wrote: post #118
themarkn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are so complicated that most "tests" like this, to see how somebody responds, strike me as useless. You are not in a controlled environment, and pretending you are is foolish. You might get a reaction and presume to know the cause, but it's hard to be sure. Maybe somebody reacts badly to a strong signal that the interviewer doesn't know how to be appropriate and professoonal in an interview.

Strongly agree with your statement, but I still think it is understandable for interviewers to want to know how their interviewee will react in situations that can easily lead to big conflicts. If you reflexively act in a way that escalates in stressful situations, that's useful information in a hiring decision.

I hope people can understand the difference between getting a feel for someone's temperament, vs. getting a feel for their political opinions. I highly doubt that the situation in question was the former and not the latter.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#127

Post by bittercynic »

psyc wrote: post #126
bittercynic wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strongly agree with your statement, but I still think it is understandable for interviewers to want to know how their interviewee will react in situations that can easily lead to big conflicts. If you reflexively act in a way that escalates in stressful situations, that's useful information in a hiring decision.

I hope people can understand the difference between getting a feel for someone's temperament, vs. getting a feel for their political opinions. I highly doubt that the situation in question was the former and not the latter.

Crucial difference. Only meant to suggest that there is some possibility that the question was probing at temperament. Asking about politics might be used as a method of checking how easy it is to anger someone, since it is a topic that causes many to control of their emotions.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#128

Post by candiodari »

hycaria wrote: post #72
tomohawk wrote: post #49

I personally know several people who are no longer competitive in various jobs due to the massive influx of illegal immigrants. These are tradesmen, landscapers, and others who used to be able to support their families and live in the area. Many of them now commute long distances (so they can live in lower cost areas) for far less pay. Their children are not following them into these jobs. And its not because they're…

So how do the immigrants manage to go by and live with the same wage?

There has been a string of articles recently how in many immigrant neighborhoods the "illegal" economy eclipses 2-to-1 or more the legal economy.

That means no taxes, no insurance, no worker rights, no unemployment benefits, abuse, theft and violence are rampant.

The dark side of open borders.

And there's your explanation for how immigrants become cheaper. If you have nothing to lose, you steal, abuse and definitely don't pay taxes (by which I mean those actions become rational despite the risk)

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#129

Post by candiodari »

endorphone wrote: post #10
galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

Comments such as yours -- parroting Donald Trump like talking points -- are remarkable when you consider that the US has the second highest purchase power in the world . The US really has no incentive to allow this to happen Except that it has opened trade for US companies, and the reported numbers are often laughably misleading. Apple, for instance, nets almost all of the profits from an iPhone, yet in the trade bal…

> Except that it has opened trade for US companies,

US trade balance: https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/balance-of-trade

How to read that graph: if the line is above zero, it's a net benefit to the US to allow free trade, if it is below, it's a net cost. In the last 50 years, not once has it been positive, and it's systematically gotten worse.

TLDR: free trade is a massive cost to the US economy. It is in fact clearly at a level where if it wasn't for the dollar's status as global reserve currency, it would be completely intolerable.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#130

Post by eli_gottlieb »

bittercynic wrote: post #109
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And we have a word for those people: milquetoast . I'm not sure people would hire me after asking about my politics for 20 minutes. What, you're gonna employ someone after getting an earful about Marx and Bookchin?

Is it possible the political questions are really a test to see if you have the good sense to avoid bringing controversial politics to work? Maybe they were looking for something along the lines of "Political opinions will differ. I'm more interested in being part of a productive team than having my politics validated."

I have the good sense to avoid working with people who are playing mind games with me.
Post reply on HN