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Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

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Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#11

Post by galieos_ghost »

baxtr wrote: post #7
galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

What’s your hypothesis that this is not happening elsewhere then? Let’s say in Germany. Free trade there as well...

Germany has been called out many times for boosting trade by manipulating the Euro. They also have stronger unions which plays a roll. They also don't have millions of illegal immigrants with no federal labor protection driving wages down internally.

https://www.politico.com/agenda/story/2017/05/26/trump-right...

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#12

Post by kmonsen »

ekidd wrote: post #8

I'm deeply skeptical of any explanation that claims that we have both a "shortage of labor" and "downward pressure on wages": > If men and women from the ages 25 to 54 took part in the labor market... [t]hat would be more fuel for the U.S. economy and a bigger source of workers for businesses crying out about a shortage of labor... > Trade with China flooded the U.S. with cheap imports, forced domestic firms to shift…

We see this all the time in tech, cannot find people is usually cannot find people with the skills and experience we want for the price we are willing to pay. This will always be true if you offer less than the current market rate which startups seems to think they are entitled to.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#13

Post by golemiprague »

ekidd wrote: post #8

I'm deeply skeptical of any explanation that claims that we have both a "shortage of labor" and "downward pressure on wages": > If men and women from the ages 25 to 54 took part in the labor market... [t]hat would be more fuel for the U.S. economy and a bigger source of workers for businesses crying out about a shortage of labor... > Trade with China flooded the U.S. with cheap imports, forced domestic firms to shift…

As if you don't know what the explanation is, illegal immigration and some dodgy legal immigration for the purpose of cheap labour, it is very simple.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#14

Post by jordanb »

ekidd wrote: post #8

I'm deeply skeptical of any explanation that claims that we have both a "shortage of labor" and "downward pressure on wages": > If men and women from the ages 25 to 54 took part in the labor market... [t]hat would be more fuel for the U.S. economy and a bigger source of workers for businesses crying out about a shortage of labor... > Trade with China flooded the U.S. with cheap imports, forced domestic firms to shift…

One way to look at it is there is a ceiling on American wages imposed by globalization. Above that ceiling you're better off going overseas. But that ceiling is below the market-clearing price of labor in the us.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#15

Post by mc32 »

jacquesm wrote: post #9
galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

> As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. What an incredible nonsense. America has been pushing free trade all over the globe to be able to sell American products into other markets. They're not 'allowing' free trade, they have been pushing it for all it's worth and then som…

And on balance we experience trade deficits. It's nice to have a free trade environment when it's reciprocal, but what has happened is that economies like Japan and China can play loose with the definition of free trade than most, and we kind of just put up with it. Few presidents and congress are willing to push the issue hard. Maybe Trump will finally call their bluff and impose sanctions.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#16

Post by jlmorton »

galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

> As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions.

Settings aside the fact that the US currently enjoys very low unemployment, with a steady rate of job creation that is now the longest jobs expansion in recorded US history, why do you believe other countries are willing to manufacture things and give them away to Americans for free?

Dollars are only valuable as a medium of exchange for American goods and services. Chinese companies will export goods and services to America because there is a demand for US dollars to purchase American goods and services, which are generated by labor and sold for a profit.

The idea that wealth and jobs could flow out of the country as a result of trade - whether free trade, or otherwise - is literally impossible.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#17

Post by galieos_ghost »

endorphone wrote: post #10
galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

Comments such as yours -- parroting Donald Trump like talking points -- are remarkable when you consider that the US has the second highest purchase power in the world . The US really has no incentive to allow this to happen Except that it has opened trade for US companies, and the reported numbers are often laughably misleading. Apple, for instance, nets almost all of the profits from an iPhone, yet in the trade bal…

Good for apple, good for the Chinese people working those jobs, bad for American citizens who would have been working those jobs.

What is so wrong about using our leverage as the world's largest economy to protect the interests of our citizen's, just like China does?

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#18

Post by jlmorton »

mc32 wrote: post #15
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. What an incredible nonsense. America has been pushing free trade all over the globe to be able to sell American products into other markets. They're not 'allowing' free trade, they have been pushing it for all it's worth and then som…

And on balance we experience trade deficits. It's nice to have a free trade environment when it's reciprocal, but what has happened is that economies like Japan and China can play loose with the definition of free trade than most, and we kind of just put up with it. Few presidents and congress are willing to push the issue hard. Maybe Trump will finally call their bluff and impose sanctions.

> And on balance we experience trade deficits.

Why are trade deficits necessarily bad? The trade deficit represents the spread between savings and investment. If net foreign investment in America is very high, then there will be a trade deficit. This is an accounting identity.

Household debt as a percentage of GDP has been declining in the US for the past decade. This leads one to believe that the trade deficit currently represents high foreign investment in the US.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#19

Post by jacquesm »

mc32 wrote: post #15
jacquesm wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. What an incredible nonsense. America has been pushing free trade all over the globe to be able to sell American products into other markets. They're not 'allowing' free trade, they have been pushing it for all it's worth and then som…

And on balance we experience trade deficits. It's nice to have a free trade environment when it's reciprocal, but what has happened is that economies like Japan and China can play loose with the definition of free trade than most, and we kind of just put up with it. Few presidents and congress are willing to push the issue hard. Maybe Trump will finally call their bluff and impose sanctions.

America has never had a 'reciprocal' free trade agreement, it has used the banner of free trade to engage in low level asymmetric trade wars. The stupid mistake they made was to ship their production capability to China, Japan got where they are under their own power, though the degree to which the Japanese bought Japanese products (mainly because of quality) meant that American products with a Japanese equivalent never stood much of a chance of being adopted in Japan.

Free trade is based on merit (quality) and production capability, America has made some costly mistakes with both.

Sanctions will hit the American consumer harder than the exporters.

Re: Why 3.5M Americans in their prime years aren’t working

#20

Post by badpun »

endorphone wrote: post #10
galieos_ghost wrote: post #6

Not sure why people are shocked by this, it's just the basic principle of diffusion. As long as america continue to allow free trade our wealth and jobs will flow out of the country as countries seek cheaper labor and sell it right back to America with no restrictions. The standard of living is raising in other countries while lowering in the US. Labor is already getting too expensive in China for cheap goods so comp…

Comments such as yours -- parroting Donald Trump like talking points -- are remarkable when you consider that the US has the second highest purchase power in the world . The US really has no incentive to allow this to happen Except that it has opened trade for US companies, and the reported numbers are often laughably misleading. Apple, for instance, nets almost all of the profits from an iPhone, yet in the trade bal…

> Apple, for instance, nets almost all of the profits from an iPhone, yet in the trade balance an iPhone magically counts as a $1000 deficit with China.

What good does Apple's record profits do for the US? Apple is owned by shareholders across the world, and Americans benefit only insofar as they actually own Apple stock.

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