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VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

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Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#121

Post by watwut »

paulcole wrote: post #111
greymeister wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If losing your job over something unethical is wrong, I don't want to be right. I would never be able to trust my employer again either way.

Millions of people in the US alone don’t have the privilege to be that principled.

We are talking about engineers here, supposedly one of the best occupations you can have. This is not about poor starving without education and no choice.

Seriosly, there is more emphaty for people who can find another job real quick (or just need to be content to not climb career ladder) then for poor-about-to-be-homeless that does something unethical.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#122

Post by greymeister »

paulcole wrote: post #117
jnordwick wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? It sucks to be in such a bind, but nothing says life is always easy or fair. The best you can do is to do the right thing and hope things are better at the next firm.

When the option is do something unethical for work or run out of money and be unable to pay rent, pay for kids’ food, medicine, etc., I wouldn’t think twice about doing what my boss asked.

The Milgram experiment[0] indicates you'd be willing to do it whether you were desperate or not if you see your employer as an authority figure.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#Results

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#123

Post by greymeister »

paulcole wrote: post #111
greymeister wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If losing your job over something unethical is wrong, I don't want to be right. I would never be able to trust my employer again either way.

Millions of people in the US alone don’t have the privilege to be that principled.

Principles are always a privilege, weighing the consequences of applying them will always be a trade-off.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#124

Post by chiefalchemist »

chiefalchemist wrote: post #69
Tomte wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a common sentiment here on HN, and it is entirely devoid of factual grounding. This is one guy who happened to travel to the USA (stupid move: asking US authorities before travelling "hey, are you going to arrest me?" and taking their word that no, they don't plan to…). Another American VW guy has already been sentenced. The "real culprits" are all living in Germany. And the investigation in Germany is ongoin…

So, in short, these guys are being charged because they can. They're a victim of circumstances. Scape goats. Political/power pawns if you will. Understand the reasons why, but it does feel like justice.

Oops. I meant does NOT feel like justice.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#126

Post by atc »

JohnGB wrote: post #41

Okay, so it's okay to go after an engineer at VW for gaming the system, and causing higher emissions than everyone thought, but not okay to go after bankers for fraud which screwed the world economy? I'm not saying that the engineer shouldn't be responsible - he should - but it's an extreme double standard.

"What they did was technically legal" etc etc

Anyway, I think it makes sense to prosecute _everyone_ involved, not just (but at least) the senior management who were responsible. If you send the message that everyone along the chain of events -- including the software engineers that are all the more relevant in today's products -- that this shit isn't ok, then aren't people going to fight against these sorts of goings-on?

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#127

Post by coldtea »

skrebbel wrote: post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

Yeah, fantastic /s

So every boss now knows that as long as they can find somebody in lower place to agree to do something unethical, they will face no repercussions themselves!

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#128

Post by zamber »

coldtea wrote: post #127
skrebbel wrote: post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

Yeah, fantastic /s So every boss now knows that as long as they can find somebody in lower place to agree to do something unethical, they will face no repercussions themselves!

Seriously I doubt they didn't knew that already.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#129

Post by mcny »

yborg wrote: post #88
uberduber wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It actually does not help to say this answer, it would go over badly in 95% of interviews no matter how egregious the unethical request. The interviewer typically questions if you're being truthful and if they will be accused of the same in the future. When I worked as an agent, we generally coached people to state one of the other reasons they quit or were fired and if ever asked the interview question "Have you eve…

I would tend to agree with this. Many top managers want people who will do dirty work for them if told to, especially in the usual case where they themselves are at little risk from prosecution themselves. Particularly in certain fields like finance, a strong sense of morality or ethics would be perceived as a serious liability.

> Particularly in certain fields like finance, a strong sense of morality or ethics would be perceived as a serious liability.

I read an article which claimed that if you want a job as a car salesperson, you should make it clear that the reason you want the job is that you want to make the most money you can, not that you have a passion for cars. Don't know how true this assertion is but the rest of the article seems to corroborate. There were anecdotes which mentioned the dealership getting a decent kickback from the manufacturer for selling say 80 cars (and the prospect of getting nothing for selling 79) which could mean the difference between the dealership being in the red versus being in the black. Given these constraints, you don't want to hire someone who does the right thing and turns away prospective customers based on what is in the customer's best interest. I can imagine similar pressure to bank tellers at places like Wells Fargo (whose ex CEO should be in prison btw)

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#130

Post by tnzn »

greymeister wrote: post #122
paulcole wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the option is do something unethical for work or run out of money and be unable to pay rent, pay for kids’ food, medicine, etc., I wouldn’t think twice about doing what my boss asked.

The Milgram experiment[0] indicates you'd be willing to do it whether you were desperate or not if you see your employer as an authority figure. [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment#Results

The Milgram experiment can't really apply to random people you know nothing about in random situations you've barely described though.
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