Live data from Hacker News

VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

reuters.com

111–120 of 134 posts

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#111
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

If losing your job over something unethical is wrong, I don't want to be right. I would never be able to trust my employer again either way.

Millions of people in the US alone don’t have the privilege to be that principled.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He moved to the US specifically to lie to federal authorities. Lowly?

Who was the boss who suggested this be done?

Who said it was his job on the line if he didn't? Quite frankly, it was his choice to engineer the cheat, whether he was ordered to by threat of employment or not.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#113

Executives need to be punished - not just lowly engineers who followed orders under the duress of losing employment

I don't disagree that some of the executives should be face similar, perhaps even harsher, sentences, but just "following orders," even under "duress" does not relieve a person of responsibility for their actions. Someone telling you to do something illegal does not suddenly make it legal.

Ethics is a big deal in many engineering disciplines, and breaking those ethical codes can cost your your license in addition to facing legal consequences.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If losing your job over something unethical is wrong, I don't want to be right. I would never be able to trust my employer again either way.

Millions of people in the US alone don’t have the privilege to be that principled.

So? It sucks to be in such a bind, but nothing says life is always easy or fair. The best you can do is to do the right thing and hope things are better at the next firm.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#115
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it a good enough reason though? That would depend on the likelihood of losing your job by refusing, the ease of finding a different job, the seriousness of the unethical request, and the likelihood of getting caught.

What's good enough is always going to be an individual decision, but it's better to be able to reference a concrete expectation of jail time.

It is not the expectation of jail time, but certainty of a punishment is what matters. See https://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2016/03/crimina... and references therein for actual research.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#116

Executives need to be punished - not just lowly engineers who followed orders under the duress of losing employment

"U.S. prosecutors have charged eight current and former Volkswagen executives in connection with the diesel emissions cheating probe. Liang is one of the lowest-ranking executives charged so far."

Other executives are charged too.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Millions of people in the US alone don’t have the privilege to be that principled.

So? It sucks to be in such a bind, but nothing says life is always easy or fair. The best you can do is to do the right thing and hope things are better at the next firm.

When the option is do something unethical for work or run out of money and be unable to pay rent, pay for kids’ food, medicine, etc., I wouldn’t think twice about doing what my boss asked.

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#118

Executives need to be punished - not just lowly engineers who followed orders under the duress of losing employment

> just lowly engineers

He was an engineering _manager_. His official job title was "Leader of Diesel Competence." Let's not pretend he was all that "lowly."

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#119
post #75
post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

It is likely he will earn a good amount of money for having accepted to be the scape goat instead of VW.

Sure, but that doesn't change anything about the argument you now have to say "no".

Re: VW engineer sentenced to 40-month prison term in diesel case

#120
post #7

Fantastic precedent. When your boss tells you to do something unethical and possibly illegal, you now have a great reason to say no.

> Fantastic precedent. That engineers will be thrown in jail while CEOs will walk away scot-free? Yeah. Fantastic.

Fantastic indeed. For decades us engineers have been blaming the bosses for the unethical shit we pull. Fuck that shit. Be civilized for a change. Don't make evil tech.
Post reply on HN