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How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

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Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#121

Post by microcolonel »

redler wrote: post #62

"She still feels sick about the conviction she was compelled to hand out, to a man who was initially stopped by police for being in a city park after nightfall. Although the law was, in her view, deeply flawed, she felt she had no choice but to vote with the majority. Glaser herself carries a Swiss Army knife on her keychain. “It just seemed like a trumped-up charge,” she says. “And it certainly doesn’t seem like it’…

I hear that in New Hampshire, people regularly inform jurors of this feature of the jury trial; but in some places it is illegal to do so. Most places try to rule it out as part of jury selection (which is understandable).

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#122

Post by wdr1 »

RealityNow wrote: post #74
arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form.

It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal.

What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops.

However, during the same Friday evening shift, an offer typically writes 1-2 for the past months. Why? Maybe it's something explainable. Maybe it's the officer isn't doing a good job.

But that's the intent of looking at distribution. It's not to say the officer has to write 16-18, but if it turned out they were slacking off, they may easily see it that way.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#123

Post by louithethrid »

arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

Lawyers are mercenarys, and mercenarys thrive on conflict. It makes perfect buisness sense to create laws to propagate and expand conflict.

Here in germany we have a law, that rules that if somebody dies without a last will- all his belongings are shared in percentage among his decendants - creating the "Erbengemeinschaft". In theory this is a good law.

In reality, this generates even among the best familys,as it allows for a group of decendants to manage the common fortune- especially if a company is at stake, a huge chance for a infinite conflict that lasts until the last of the fortune is used up by lawyers. Its insane and nobody gains from this. Jobs are lost, lives are shattered for nothing, brothers and sisters never talk again to one another- if there ever was a law to ensure enployment of a disgusting profession - this is it. If you wanted peace- the law would be salomonic, slice the fortune instantly, conflict solved.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#124

Post by rayiner »

arca_vorago wrote: post #21

This is a single symptom of a larger issue, namely an excess of laws to the point that any law can be arbitrarily used to prosecute you if you are of an unwanted class, race, etc. Add on top the police quota system and you have a recipe of this type of injustice that runs the gamut, from antiquidated knife laws to the drug war. To me, this is largely a result of lawyers fucking ruining everything they touch, and then…

People who can afford a lawyer don’t carry gravity knives. These laws are promoted by middle class parents, who are terrified of everything, but especially of things that are indicative of working class people (such as knives—middle class suburbanites have little use for them outside the kitchen).

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#125

Post by [deleted] »

emdubs wrote: post #43
StavrosK wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait a minute, I have one of those and they're hard enough to open two-handed, your arm would break the sound barrier before you could flick this thing with enough speed to open it one-handed. Is this really considered a gravity knife?

Grab the blade and flick it while holding the blade. The weight of the handle will pull it open (at least partially). That is enough to qualify under this law unfortunately.

[deleted]

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#126

Post by dunham »

StavrosK wrote: post #107
maxerickson wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even holding the blade?

You can't really hold the blade, the blade in mine is so recessed that you can only open it by putting your thumbnail in a notch on the blade, but which is pretty hard and takes effort. I can definitely not hold the entire thing from the bit of blade that protrudes.

It looks like the linked knife has a handle sticking out of the blade specifically for grabbing on to. Perhaps you have a different model?

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#127

Post by URSpider94 »

wdr1 wrote: post #122
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However,…

From the article:

““It’s an easy way to make an arrest. And they’re under pressure to make arrests.” A poster on Officer.com, a verified online message board for law enforcement officers, put it bluntly in 2013 when he advised a rookie to be on the lookout for “GKs”: “make sure they have a prior conviction so you can bump it up to that felony!!!”

So, there may not be quotas, but it’s pretty clear that there is pressure to deliver arrest numbers, especially felony arrests. A different mechanism that drives the same behavior.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#128

Post by StavrosK »

dunham wrote: post #126
StavrosK wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't really hold the blade, the blade in mine is so recessed that you can only open it by putting your thumbnail in a notch on the blade, but which is pretty hard and takes effort. I can definitely not hold the entire thing from the bit of blade that protrudes.

It looks like the linked knife has a handle sticking out of the blade specifically for grabbing on to. Perhaps you have a different model?

Ahh, I missed that that was a handle. Mine looks more like this:

https://www.swiss-knife.com/media/catalog/product/0/_/0.9523...

When the blade is folded, only the little notch sticks out. Very hard to open.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#129

Post by 21 »

joshuaheard wrote: post #54

The guy in the story received the "maximum sentence" of 6 years just for carrying a knife? I think there is more to this story than stated in the article. That being said, vague laws can be abused by the state to criminalize anything or anyone the don't like.

They explain in the article. Because of his prior convictions, his charge was "bumped up" to the next level.

They also say in the article that police officers are told to look for prior convictions (presumably over the radio when they check identity) so that they can "bump up" the charge.

Re: How a ’50s-Era New York Knife Law Has Landed Thousands in Jail

#130

Post by pravda »

wdr1 wrote: post #122
RealityNow wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's absolutely absurd that "arrest quotas" are even a thing in America. The job of the police in most first world countries is to protect the people, not make arrests for ludicrous laws. I don't want my tax dollars funding police officers camping out on highways to hand out speeding tickets or arresting random people for having pocket knives on them. No wonder Americans have such an adversarial relationship with the…

"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form. It's also worth noting in many areas arrest quotas are outright illegal. What departments do typically do is look at distributions. Say on a Friday evening shift, over the past 12 month period, a typical officer typically has 16-18 speeding stops. However,…

>"Arrest quotas" is a bit like voter fraud. It's talked about a lot, there's heavy speculation, but there's little evidence showing it exists in any systemic form.

No it isn't! In New York City, of course there are arrest quotas.

As a matter of fact, NYPD officers will arrest innocent people, on entirely trumped-up charges, just to make quota.

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