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ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

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Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#121

Post by Pxtl »

ThrustVectoring wrote: post #89
guiomie wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm on the same side as you about the fights. I'm just not a fan of the hypocrisy of letting people fight their anger away on national TV when someone doing the same in a public space would get arrested. I've played hockey, I get the whole aspect of being emotionally invested in the game, but I still don't think it's the right thing to do. Otherwise, I always thought the concussion aspect was much less worst in the N…

I've heard arguments that fights in hockey reduce the overall level of violence through changing incentives. Basically, it means that rough play will get you punched, so people are less willing to futz around on the ice.

I've heard that before - like the reason that Crosby spends so much time laid out is that the Pens refused to use an enforcer to punish the guys who were roughing him up.

That, to me, sounds like anarchy on the ice. Like the game is either impossible to properly referee or the referees are incompetent or the refs simply have been told to ignore a certain level of violence.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#122

Post by skewart »

aaron-lebo wrote: post #47
kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

1. Willingly plays 5 years in the league, makes $10,000,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. 2. Willingly works 5 years in the factory, makes $10,000, has 50% chance of reduced health in the future. Why does the first situation bother us so much more than the second? Most products we use are built via the second, but you're probably still using those products. The NFL seems like better employment than…

Very few NFL players make $10M over 5 years - most careers don't last that long, and/or compensation isn't that high. Then consider that few elite college players make it to the NFL, and very few high school players make it to elite college programs.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#123

Post by nervousvarun »

Joky wrote: post #111
geebee wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand Rugby, Australian rules, or Gaelic football especially well (or US football for that matter, though I've watched it casually over the years), but my understanding is that tacking in these sports has a different purpose and that tackling technique reflects this. You may be on to something with you comment about yards - in American football, it can even be a game of inches. As a result, tackling isn'…

Another difference on tackling in Rugby: you can only tackle the ball carrier.

Not sure what you're saying here...are you equating blocking and tackling?

In American football you also may only tackle the ball carrier. You can initiate contact other guys (usually in the form of blocking), and that can be very violent at times...but I don't think there's a scenario where you can tackle someone without the ball (and it not be called for a penalty).

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#124

Post by flashdance »

kpwags wrote: post #24

Good for him. I stopped following football after watching League of Denial on PBS. If I'm at the bar or something and it happens to be on, I might passively watch it, but I haven't sought it out since. I just can't support the NFL. I do feel torn though because I love hockey. I know they're dealing with similar controversies. My justification, however flimsy it might be is that I don't like the fighting (I might be i…

Most kids in elementary/middle/high school (at least where I grew up) play non-contact hockey. You're not allowed to fight or bodycheck, but incidental contact is fine. Only the super high (competitive) levels had hitting.

Non-contact hockey players are three times less likely to be severely injured and three times less likely to be concussed while playing.[1] That's the direction hockey should be going, IMO. Contact is fun and all but I know too many people who are seriously messed up from concussions--I'm glad my parents put me in a non-contact league.

[1] http://www.med.mcgill.ca/epidemiology/hanley/c609/practicum2...

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#125

Post by mcguire »

Isamu wrote: post #49
beachy wrote: post #17

Speaking as someone from a rugby-playing nation, where mostly players wear no protection except mouthguards and shin pads, American Football is spectacular but insane. Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. In rugby, you don't tackle someone like that as you'll hurt yourself, and fail to stop the opponent. Rugby is a plenty violent sport, and has its own health…

> Wearing protective helmets just ups the ante as players launch into each other with full force. Agreed, but funny thing is the protection has gradually developed over time to limit injury. American football used to be played with no protection, then with very limited protection, leather helmets, pads. Then hard helmets, armored pads. Etc. Kind of an arms race, as with increased protection, the hits keep getting har…

It's likely that protection has improved the situation.

http://time.com/3387798/football-deaths/

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=9406E5DC143EE...

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#126

Post by ThrustVectoring »

lostlogin wrote: post #117
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rules could get reworked to make it less dangerous for brain injury. Take a cue from Australian Rules Football: remove all padding and make high tackles that endanger the head illegal.

Rugby and league have no padding and those rules. It doesn't appear to anywhere close to enough.

It's still a risky and violent sport, but the issue of hard-to-identify-and-track accumulated damage is lessened.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#127

Post by bglazer »

mrspeaker wrote: post #103
ThrustVectoring wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the rules could get reworked to make it less dangerous for brain injury. Take a cue from Australian Rules Football: remove all padding and make high tackles that endanger the head illegal.

Great idea! Less head injuries, but still a hard-hittin' sport https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1aU0hz5Tf8

Virtually every example of a "big hit" in that video ends with the person who got hit showing the fencing response (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fencing_response). That body pose indicates a pretty severe concussion.

In fact, the most popular video on YouTube about the fencing response has a shocking amount of overlap with the "big hits" video you shared. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZlXjwAlOflA

Frankly, your video was kind of hard to watch. It's basically 3 minutes of people getting their brains rattled in their skulls.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#128

Post by imglorp »

santoshalper wrote: post #119
BearGoesChirp wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I just can't support the NFL. I'm not sure what the NFL does that's wrong. Their players get significant fame, are consenting adults, and get pay checks that many would trade even more of their health for. It is the college level, and especially the high school level, that I see the major problems at. When you have kids, or even people who aren't paid, risking their health it crosses a significant line. If college p…

Also, the NFL uses College and High School Football as free development leagues. If HS and CFB didn't exist, where would the NFL get their players?

This point is critically important because TBI in developing brains is especially disastrous with lifetime implications. This isn't a risk/reward discussion because TBI's are basically everyone if they're playing hard. So there's guaranteed downsides.

Children should not be doing this, ever.

http://www.biausa.org/brain-injury-children.htm#recovery

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#129

Post by koolba »

I love watching football and each year I look forward to the start of football season. It's amazing game to watch and when played by great players, exceedingly entertaining and exciting.

I'm not blind to the research about what it does to the players brains but my reaction is the reverse of what I'm reading from most in this thread: I'm watching more football than ever.

I think it's only a matter of time till the game is either neutered to nothingness or banned entirely and I selfishly want to enjoy every last minute that I can. There's a sibling comment referring to as "America's gladiator sport". I think that's particularly apt. Deep down we feel dirty watching it but we also don't want to turn it off.

Re: ESPN Football Analyst Walks Away, Disturbed by Brain Trauma on Field

#130

Post by nck4222 »

Pxtl wrote: post #54
kejaed wrote: post #4

An investigative piece was released yesterday from the Hamilton Spectator in Ontario where McMaster University researchers studied the brains of 20 living former Canadian Football League players. It didn't turn out particularly well. "Study shows ‘disastrous’ damage in brains of retired CFL players" http://3downnation.com/2017/08/30/study-shows-disastrous-dam...

Oof. There are CFL players with day-jobs. These aren't NFL quadzillionaires.

The average career of an NFL player is something like 2 years. The vast majority of people who play in the NFL go and get day jobs when their career is done. Most don't save any of their playing money.
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