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As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

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Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#121

Post by sp332 »

ucaetano wrote: post #59
sp332 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's fine, but without calling it anything it becomes a puzzle to even know what you're talking about.

> a certain culture that I'll call X > X (which might include sci-fi, fantasy, video-games, board games, certain types of discussions, and a lot more) Any suggestions on how to make it more clear? I don't want to give it a name, to avoid focusing in the name, which will then lead to an endless gaming culture vs. nerd culture vs. geek culture vs. the world. Honest question, non-confrontational, really wanna know :)

Your post is long enough that I had enough context (at least as someone in that culture :) to figure it out. It was just annoying to puzzle through the first while without knowing what you were talking about.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#122

Post by tptacek »

dunkelheit wrote: post #107
tptacek wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of seriously hardcore people do not spend 20 hours on their weekends writing more code. Obviously, there are lots of programmers who do, but I think what's happening here is pretty simple: the people who have "writing more computer code" as their personal hobby are excited to feel superior to those who don't.

> I think what's happening here is pretty simple: the people who have "writing more computer code" as their personal hobby are excited to feel superior to those who don't. Wait, all of them? That's a pretty sweeping generalization. I think you should allow for the possibility that a substantial fraction of them do it because they enjoy it. Also, often the sentiment goes the other way. Like: - So, how was the weekend?…

Whoah. I'm not saying that people who write code for fun all do this. I write code for fun and so does my wife. I'm saying that people who claim that writing code for fun makes them superior developers do this.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#123

Post by pottersbasilisk »

noncoml wrote: post #38

Why are all posts regarding the google memo getting flagged? This kind of censorship is getting annoying.

yes how do we get admins to allow discussion on damores peterson interview.

He deserves a chance to speak without others twisting his words.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#124

Post by belorn »

_jgvg wrote: post #13

I have never seen any career that is so deeply tied to a certain culture as CS/SWE and a certain culture that I'll call X, to avoid any discussions on naming and so on. I see far more diversity in tastes and interests in most other majors and careers, while in CS/SWE, X seems to hold a monopoly. CS/SWE goes far beyond a career, usually becoming close to a religion or way of life. I rarely see doctors, lawyers, or mos…

Take a look at other artistic work, like say people involved in making movies? Do they too practice outside work as a hobby?

Take someone like Adam Savage. Talking about being in front of the camera, behind it, being producer, or just being a consumer of other peoples work. Talking about the script, the camera technology, the set, the props, the making of props. About side projects, personal project, about other from of artistic endeavors.

I don't know personally that industry, but from everything I hear, it seems common behavior that people in the TV and movie industry often have a personal connection to the work they do. Maybe it just that when people create things and are allowed to be artistic, then the work tend to melt into the personality of those that are passionate about it.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#125

Post by nyxtom »

yeukhon wrote: post #119
nyxtom wrote: post #111

I want to refute this notion that you have to work 24/hrs a day, 7 days a week. A lot of company cultures that are like that seem to be much more competitive and tends to favor young single kids ready to pour in late nights. I say this as a male, who is also somewhat young (late 20s), but I'm also married and I have a kid, and I'm a full-time software engineer who works remotely. In other words, I have a life before/…

+1. I lost most of the passion to hack on new things except doing the job and learn on the job (that's fun). I only hack/write code outside of work when I have a reason to or whenever I feel like to. I rather spend time outdoor or read a book or go to a show/museum whatever or spend time with my baby niece. The notion software engineers spend weekend making new electronic gadgets or come up with a new awesome library…

Indeed! Speaking of stereotypes it seems :) Most nights I am pretty burnt out from work that I rarely want to hack on anything. But when I've had enough sleep and an article/project or coursera class peaks my interest I'll take a look. But in general, I would say that's pretty par for the course for me as well. These days with the kid and everything I try and plan for those nights.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#126

Post by fiblye »

Boothroid wrote: post #87
xienze wrote: post #5

Great article and hits on what I think is the main difference between men and women: men seem to be far more likely to become obsessive and devote massive amounts of time to hobbies and study. I mean if you're not popular and girls aren't interested in you, what else are you going to do? And spending years being obsessed with computers is naturally going to lead you down a path towards a degree and job in computers,…

I was very popular with girls for about 2 years between 14-16, but was still hugely geeky. The idea that there are lonely men out there that think 'I can't get girls, I'll become a geek instead!' Laughable.

And then you became unpopular with girls suddenly? Because you became more or less geeky, or what? And what does being "very popular" at 14 have to do with adults being lonely?

I have no clue what your intention was with that post.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#128

Post by gyardley »

jholman wrote: post #96
tptacek wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely nobody has argued that people who code in their spare time should be fired. That's something you introduced, pointlessly and disruptively, to the thread. What a tire fire all these threads are. And people are surprised they get flagged!

I think that's very close to what gyardley argued. First paragraph is a claim that people who code in their spare time are liabilities rather than assets. Second paragraph is a claim that the tech industry as a whole should recognize this, and take steps to make sure there aren't too many around. That's not actually arguing for firing (I mean, it might be arguing for that, but not necessarily), but it's at a minimum…

'Coding in your spare time' isn't quite as extreme as having no life outside of tech. Hey, I code a bit in my spare time too, so let me clarify.

It's the people who don't do anything else but code that I've, in my experience, had real issues with - they might make great computer scientists, but as a group they're not very good in a team of software developers. Arrogance, problems cooperating with others, excessive nitpicking, 'engineer's disease', poor social skills...

I'm not saying you're guaranteed to have any or all of those problems if all you do 24/7 is code, but I've seen it one hell of a lot, and I'm perplexed why this type of person tends to be preferred over more well-rounded individuals. It's not like they're actually better at their jobs.

I'm not arguing for going through an organization and sacking everyone who codes on the weekend. But I strongly suspect that if interviewers didn't glorify the obsessive 24/7 coder, either deliberately or subconsciously as 'what a real developer looks like', we'd have both a much more diverse tech industry and a much more functional one.

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#129

Post by [deleted] »

ralfn wrote: post #74
gyardley wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it doesn't. It makes you one-dimensional and particularly poor at building products for others unlike yourself. The sooner the tech industry realizes that this sort of person is not an asset and that having too many of them around just drives others away, the better off it'll be.

Are you absolutely sure you arent just convincing yourself? As someone who does actually love all this stuff so much that work doesnt start and hobby doesnt really stop... We meet and work with people like you all the time. We like the diversity. There are many ways to contribute to the end result and any smart company hires both of us. But your resentment is mean spirited. Get over yourself. We are not driving any o…

[deleted]

Re: As a Woman in Tech, I Realized: These Are Not My People

#130

Post by Boothroid »

fiblye wrote: post #126
Boothroid wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was very popular with girls for about 2 years between 14-16, but was still hugely geeky. The idea that there are lonely men out there that think 'I can't get girls, I'll become a geek instead!' Laughable.

And then you became unpopular with girls suddenly? Because you became more or less geeky, or what? And what does being "very popular" at 14 have to do with adults being lonely? I have no clue what your intention was with that post.

I think I became uglier as I grew up. My point was that my popularity with girls was independent of my geekiness. They fancied me in spite of my geekiness because I was beautiful (for about 2 years, I lament their loss). Not getting girls didn't make me any more or less geeky, just less happy.
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