Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud • Hacker News Board

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#121

Post by gizmo » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

AJRF wrote: post #44

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

He raised the price of Daraprim in order to fund R&D to find alternative treatments as Daraprim caused some nasty side effects. It was free to any individual who wished to obtain it, with Martin footing the bill. The side effect of the price hike was the insurance companies has to pay more, not individuals. So no, one couldn't argue he hurt a lot of sick people.

1. There is no evidence of any R&D efforts. He did "market research", i.e. finding new drugs to acquire and hike the price on.

2. It was absolutely 100% not free to any individual who wished to obtain it. If you had no insurance you might (or might not) get it for free, but if you had lousy insurance you could get stuck with a 20% copay, which means you have to pay $18,000 out of pocket -per month-. Also, hospitals stopped having Daraprim in stock because of the price hike which means people with acute cases are no longer able to start treatment immediately.

3. If you can't argue he hurt a lot of sick people, why are doctors and other healthcare professionals arguing exactly that?

I think you've been drinking the Shkreli cool-aid.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#122

Post by discombobulate » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:36 PM UTC

binarymax wrote: post #96

discombobulate wrote: post #77

I quite like Martin. I talked to him a few time on YouTube, whilst he was live streaming. He's whip-smart & knowledgeable. He does, however, have a couple of major flaws. 1) He trolls. Hard. 2) It seems he lies. Which I picked up from a previous news article. (He claimed to have ~$50mm under management @ his previous hedge fund. It was more like $1.6mm. Something like that). I can forgive the trolling. It's over the…

Oh so his only two flaws are trolling and he lies. But he's OK sure. How about the fact that he caused the suffering of patients needing the drug that he was raised prices on?

I believe he corrected the price of a drug. & no one went without. Those unable to pay for insurance got the drug for free.

Also, I said two major flaws. Obviously, ppl have many flaws.

Edit: It's economic illiteracy if you don't understand that. If you have evidence which says otherwise(?), I'm happy to look at it.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#123

Post by ZenoArrow » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

ptr_void wrote: post #76

ZenoArrow wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Price gouging by pharmaceutical companies almost certainly drives up health insurance costs. It's not a victimless crime.

By his explanation: There are only a small amount of patient that patients that needs this drug. I think the number was around 2000. Also drugs are not the largest part of insurances pay for.

That doesn't make my previous statement any less true.

Also, I'd suggest focusing on the wider picture. Price gouging on a single drug may have a minimal impact, but there have been numerous cases of drug companies artificially hiking prices of their products, which does make a substantial difference. There are numerous studies into this if you're interested.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#124

Post by Clubber » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

PhasmaFelis wrote: post #29

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

Shkreli was blunt and open about a sleazy thing that many others are cagey about. That doesn't make him better than them, just more visible.

It exposes it. Not quite as monumental, but a Snowden moment. Remember, congress did squat about the price gouging, because that's what they get paid to do.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#125

Post by Osmose » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:37 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #103

wfunction wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Okay, I'll bite. Why do you think he's human garbage. Obtaining a license just to increase a drug's price from $13.50 to $750 for no apparent reason other than greed isn't enough for you?

And what's wrong with that? Be upset that the FDA only approved one company to make the drug. And it's not like anyone was hurt. Overall, insurers ended up paying a bit more (drugs are only 10-15% of US health care costs, and very few people need Daraprim). Big deal. If more people did this, then the system would get this issue addressed, maybe. On top of that, he said he was investing the profits into researching be…

It is possible to be upset with both the system and the people using it.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#126

Post by dghughes » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Clubber wrote: post #5

I use to hate this guy, then I saw the Vice interview on him. It was nice to see his side of the story. I don't know much about this case in particular. It was kinda sleazy to see the congress question him about his price increases when they knew damn well it was perfectly legal and they haven't done anything to stop it. Shkreli seems to be trying to expose this hypocrisy, but the news loves their stories. Vice inter…

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

>I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

Isn't that part of why people claim he is a psychopath? Smart, lack of empathy, easily gains people's trust, and charm all bang on for traits for psychopathy.

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#127

Post by hellofunk » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

flipp3r wrote: post #101

hellofunk wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tim Horn of the Treatment Action Group and Carlos del Rio of the HIV Medicine Association, said [Shkreli's] actions were insufficient, given that patients initially treated for days at a hospital typically have to continue the treatment for weeks or months after leaving. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Shkreli

They said "Del Rio noted that while hospitals treat many patients initially, most are then treated at home for a couple of months, so the lower hospital price doesn’t help." This just states that people at home, after being treated at a hospital, still need the medicine. Hospitals get 50% off, which is what your unrelated statement is about. The medicine is a cure, you need to go through about 100 pills of it. The co…

[0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and health status, something that's difficult to focus on when their lives are in danger. In June, one of her patients gave up on the process. The patient switched therapies, only to suffer a negative side effect."

[0] http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/25/news/economy/daraprim-aids-d...

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#128

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

mindfulplay wrote: post #90

Sangermaine wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you kidding? He's human garbage, let him rot. It's astounding how people are being taken in by this con man.

Regardless of big an asshole he is based on seeing the Vice interview and thinking about the big fraud pharma industry makes me think he is actually way better than the conniving people who run big pharma. This guy speaks out and maybe he is an asshole and suddenly everyone hates him. The rest keep their profits to themselves and we don't seem to care or mind.

[deleted]

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#129

Post by hellofunk » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

MichaelGG wrote: post #59

hellofunk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One could argue that he hurt a lot of sick people by making it very difficult or impossible for them to afford the hundreds of percent price increases he laid upon the drugs he took control over. Edit: [0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and…

Is that true? He has repeatedly said that if they are paying for it directly, he will give it to them for free (or $1 or so?) -- that the prices were only for insurers. Certainly it should be easy to find people that got hurt and he denied to help, right? Also, this is the system's fault for giving a monopoly on a product to someone. Who knows how many other medicines are out there existing purely on someone's kindhe…

[0] "... it says that the drug is available for free to people with deep financial need. But Dr. Aberg has watched her patients have to "jump through the hoops" to get it. Patients have to prove both financial need and health status, something that's difficult to focus on when their lives are in danger. In June, one of her patients gave up on the process. The patient switched therapies, only to suffer a negative side effect."

[0] http://money.cnn.com/2016/08/25/news/economy/daraprim-aids-d...

Re: Martin Shkreli is found guilty of securities fraud

#130

Post by tmat » Fri, Aug 04, 2017, 7:38 PM UTC

CydeWeys wrote: post #27

cloakandswagger wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. My initial perception of Shkreli was the commonly accepted one of revulsion and hatred. After watching the Vice piece, plus a lot of Shkreli's finance talks and live streams, I find him pretty charming and unbelievably intelligent.

The outrageous price increases directly led to people dying because they couldn't afford life-saving medication. There's no redeeming yourself from that just because you're charming or intelligent. Psychopaths often are.

This is absolutely not true. You're speaking out of your ass here. 0 people died. If they couldn't afford it HE GAVE IT TO THEM FREE.