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Apple letter about iPhone 4

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Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#121

Post by blaix »

Psyonic wrote: post #118
blaix wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if this is really the case or not, but what Apple is saying is more like going to a mechanic because your gas gauge keeps dropping to E when you hold the steering wheel a certain way, and the mechanic informs you that your gauge has been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_.

But its only been reporting more gas than you actually had _for several years_ because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make AT&T's network look better than it is.

Precisely. But to keep the analogy going: because Apple chose to lie to you in 2008 to make that hybrid look like it gets better gas mileage than it actually does.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#122

Post by jokermatt999 »

marknutter wrote: post #115
ttol wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i hear you. the part that irks me is that in the year since the time of 3GS release, this passed QA for call making . while we give them more time now, we suffer the affected calls. maybe Gary Powell was the guy in charge of making sure calls worked properly

Ever since the first iPhone was launched I've made sure to complain very little about it. Do you remember how bad smart phones were before Apple entered the game? I do, I went through about 5 before getting an iPhone. I'm astonished these devices do everything they do, to be completely honest. Little issues like these don't get me down.

>Ever since the first iPhone was launched I've made sure to complain very little about it.

Complaining gets issues fixed, period. Living with issues and accepting them may be better for your health and outlook on life, but it doesn't bring about progress. If Apple had just accepted the things wrong with smartphones there would be no iPhone in the first place. I agree that complaining and entitlement sometimes go too far (though not in the case of dropped calls; a phone should be able to be used as a phone), I'd say that complaining overall remains very much a good thing. Satisfaction leads to stagnation.

Edit: And although I don't agree with your post, I didn't find it downvote worthy. I hate to bring karma into discussions, but it seems like it keeps things more civil when one side doesn't downvote the other, so I don't.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#123

Post by joecode »

I have trouble believing this is just a display issue. Has anyone done experiments to show this is a hardware, rather than software issue? It seems that my 3GS reception actually got much worse after I upgraded to the 4.0 firmware. This would explain the widespread perception that the iPhone 4 is worse than the 3G/3GS, since previous owners would have been running the old firmware.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#124

Post by gordieparke »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #112
tesseract wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An insulative coating? We're talking about signals in the 850 to 2300 MHz range - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling anyone?

I don't know what that means. Apple has claimed not touching the black gap or using a case helps. Random people online seem to think that sticky tape or nail polish can fix the problem. Anand seems to think some thin layer of diamond would do the job too. Are you saying it wouldn't work? And if not could you explain why not, and what would be needed?

I'm also a suspicious of the insulative coating fix. I think the proposed solution hinges on the idea that electrically isolating the hand from the conductive surface of the antenna would prevent it from loading/bridging the antenna. While a thin insulating layer would accomplish this at DC, it may not at higher frequencies, especially when you get up close to the GHz range.

Your finger and the metal of the antenna are essentially two conductors separated by a thin insulator, which forms a capacitor. A capacitor blocks DC current, but its impedance (resistance) goes down as the frequency of the signal increases. What tesseract is suggesting is that the frequencies in the antenna are so high that our capacitor's resistance is practically nil; the thin insulator essentially does nothing to fix the problem.

A possible way to fix this is by lowering the capacitance of our capacitor. The simplest way to do this is to simply increase the distance between the two conductors, i.e. move the finger farther from the antenna. If you look at Apple's bumper case, you'll notice that it is far thicker than any of the proposed insulating layers.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#125

Post by viraptor »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #112
tesseract wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An insulative coating? We're talking about signals in the 850 to 2300 MHz range - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitive_coupling anyone?

I don't know what that means. Apple has claimed not touching the black gap or using a case helps. Random people online seem to think that sticky tape or nail polish can fix the problem. Anand seems to think some thin layer of diamond would do the job too. Are you saying it wouldn't work? And if not could you explain why not, and what would be needed?

I think that what he's trying to say is that at high frequencies thin coating is not enough. You've got a similar situation in capacitors where with no physical and conductive connection between the sheets, you get the effect of a good conductor of alternating current. You'd create a similar effect by coating the antenna and pressing your conductive (to some extent) finger on the coating - you'd be a part of a large capacitor.

How exactly would that affect the signal is up for discussion. It depends on how conductive is your body, what's the thickness of the coating, what area would be needed to create a visible effect, etc. etc.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#126

Post by viraptor »

tomerico wrote: post #111
alttab wrote: post #14

http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1477924 jobs did exactly what I thought they would do. Change perception, not reception.

They actually did the opposite, they didn't change 1 bar to display 5, but 5 bars to display less.

That's not what the parent claimed. He claimed they changed perception. Which way did it change is not really important. They change what you see, but the reception / what really happens stayed exactly the same.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#127

Post by aliston »

ttol wrote: post #110
proee wrote: post #98

This is going to make AT&T look even worse. Maybe apple knew this algorithm was in place all along and now they are telling AT&T that they can't play games anymore. Apple is now placing the blame on AT&T by saying that the problem is actually low bars (i.e. the network). Brilliant way to shift the blame.

Apple put the algorithm in place via OS 2.1 update back in '08. http://www.newsoxy.com/technology/apple-iphone/article11156.... If you don't remember, back then every blogger was saying things like "my signal has improved drastically with this update!!11!!1one". This is what the graphical representation of that update was: http://fscked.co.uk/post/754590440/this-infographic-hopefull... As you can see, over 50% = 5 ba…

Why is a -50dBm S/N ratio considered a "perfect signal"?

Edit: dBm as a unit for SNR doesn't make sense, which is why I was confused. The Y axis is overall signal strength, not S/N ratio.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#128

Post by BRadmin »

ttol wrote: post #32

I could care less about the signal problem. The proximity sensor thing is insanely annoying. I am much much more likely to end the call or put it on mute than I am to drop the call due to reception issues. I've exchanged the phone once already and the replacement phone has the same issue. At first, I thought it was my face (shape? texture?), or the way I was holding it (am I suppose to push it with force against my e…

Thank you - the proximity sensor issue is a much bigger deal for me as well!

I took my iPhone into a genius appointment yesterday. They took it into the back area and upon returning informed me that they installed a "patch," I couldn't restore from my previous back-up, and that it was a known problem.

Apparently this is a software issue that only affects those upgrading their iPhones (the iPhone 4 doesn't like something in the back-up), not brand-new users.

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#129

Post by ttol »

BRadmin wrote: post #128
ttol wrote: post #32

I could care less about the signal problem. The proximity sensor thing is insanely annoying. I am much much more likely to end the call or put it on mute than I am to drop the call due to reception issues. I've exchanged the phone once already and the replacement phone has the same issue. At first, I thought it was my face (shape? texture?), or the way I was holding it (am I suppose to push it with force against my e…

Thank you - the proximity sensor issue is a much bigger deal for me as well! I took my iPhone into a genius appointment yesterday. They took it into the back area and upon returning informed me that they installed a "patch," I couldn't restore from my previous back-up, and that it was a known problem. Apparently this is a software issue that only affects those upgrading their iPhones (the iPhone 4 doesn't like someth…

wait, what? genius bar can fix it with a patch? did they install the patch for you and did that fix the issue for you? do you now have an iphone that has proximity sensor fixed? when they returned the phone, were all your apps/settings intact or was it fresh? what does your about screen say for version numbers?

Re: Apple letter about iPhone 4

#130

Post by naner »

> To fix this, we are adopting AT&T’s recently recommended formula

Clever. As I was reading this my mind started reeling "What if they intentionally showed more bars to make AT&T's crappy network look better than it really is?"

I bet they anticipated the rumors this might start.

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