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The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

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Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#121

Post by rmcpherson »

justboxing wrote: post #118
hiisukun wrote: post #97

At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can…

Digging the joke, but is there any scientific truth to this statement? > It was designed to be horizontal. Then people came along and used it vertical. Wasn't meant for that.

Yes, humans evolved from an animal whose back was horizontal, parallel with the ground. Our spines are not an optimal solution.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#122

Post by dsr_ »

justboxing wrote: post #118
hiisukun wrote: post #97

At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can…

Digging the joke, but is there any scientific truth to this statement? > It was designed to be horizontal. Then people came along and used it vertical. Wasn't meant for that.

It's more accurate to say that the vast majority of tetrapods evolved their spines to support use parallel to the ground, and that even those which occasionally walk around bipedally spend lots of time either brachiating (in trees) or quadrupedally.

There were no designs involved.

Humans are the largest bipedal walkers, but not the only ones. Here's an interesting survey:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1571302/

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#123

Post by jo909 »

erentz wrote: post #69
pavel_lishin wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

First, you're taking a god-of-the-gaps approach to acupuncture. "It hasn't been proven to be ineffective for condition X, so keep your mind open!" Second, they have run good trials on many of the conditions acupuncture claims to cure. You picked the one paragraph that might be interpreted to support your claim: > It's a shame that Western science seems so intent on dismissing non-western treatments and techniques, ra…

> There's no reason to not try acupuncture, if you've got the money for it, I guess. It's not likely to hurt you. Make sure they wipe the injection sites with alcohol and use properly sterilized or disposable needles. (Give it with the same expectations you have for an injection.)

Some people try to explain the actual physical effect of acupuncture with the small trauma and inflammation that the body has to deal with in the punctured area. So being extremely sterile would be counter-productive if that is true.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#124

Post by briantakita »

rwh86 wrote: post #90
briantakita wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's funny that we have billions poured into cancer research yet we still can't find that cure. I guess we need another cure cancer walkathon with pink ribbons cause those smart scientists almost have that cure... Perhaps there is a cure (or at least the causes are well-known), but it's being withheld from the public. Why would we ever want to fix problems that employ so many people & give them nice houses & yachts?

Actually, cancer treatment has made huge progress in the last decade or so. Melanoma, in particular, has gone from a virtual death sentence to being one of the more treatable forms. The idea that we haven't found "the cure" to cancer is silly because cancer isn't one disease, it's many, down to the point of everyone's cancer being genetically different, and in fact different cancer cells being genetically different w…

I'm not going to argue against the complexity of cancer, just as the effects of a complex system is more complicated compared to the inputs (i.e. a fractal).

What is not emphasized is nutrition, environmental toxins, bioaccumulative effects of "safe" compounds that we interact with daily (plastics, chemicals, hormonal (estrogen) mimickers, Electromagnetic pollution, Stress, side effects of drugs) & their effects throwing monkey wrenches into biological processes & causing these mutations.

We can study the effects & create drugs to combat the effects or we can address the causes. One strategy is more profitable, has a more defensible market position, & creates a more dependent consumer base than the other.

This will be my last post as I've already done enough damage to my HN karma on this topic. It's a pretty obvious argument if one takes an honest look at motivations of the different parties. It's all too easy to get bogged down & distracted by the details at the tail end of the system; when it's the inputs that really matter.

The issue is a multi-domain systemic issue that we are trying to solve in a single domain (pharmaceutical drugs/medical procedures). A Belief system is a great tool to handle the complexities of life & choosing an effective Belief System is a tool that will help one achieve optimal results. Our culture has atomized existence into domains & degenerated holistic belief systems to our detriment.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#125

Post by princeb »

I injured my lower back on squats.

it just takes one moment of being tired, losing concentration, forgetting the form, failing to maintain stiffness and strength in the core, forcing a rep out of a bad position, not getting enough rest and nutrition on a high intensity program, and that's it.

I never had an issue before but now I do. massages, physio, painkillers don't work. I can still walk and work and do everyday stuff, but I will not be participating in powerlifting meets for a long time.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#126

Post by jonnathanson »

justboxing wrote: post #118
hiisukun wrote: post #97

At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can…

Digging the joke, but is there any scientific truth to this statement? > It was designed to be horizontal. Then people came along and used it vertical. Wasn't meant for that.

It's "directionally" true, but it's a simplification. Our spines have evolved slightly to accomodate an upright posture. The human spine is curved to accomodate weight bearing while upright, and this particular curvature is not seen in other mammals, including other great apes like chimps and gorillas.

Ref: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lordosis

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#127

Post by TylerE »

jo909 wrote: post #123
erentz wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There's no reason to not try acupuncture, if you've got the money for it, I guess. It's not likely to hurt you. Make sure they wipe the injection sites with alcohol and use properly sterilized or disposable needles. (Give it with the same expectations you have for an injection.)

Some people try to explain the actual physical effect of acupuncture with the small trauma and inflammation that the body has to deal with in the punctured area. So being extremely sterile would be counter-productive if that is true.

No. Just ... no.

You don't want an infection.

Whatever "trauma and inflammation" is caused is caused by the needle displacing tissue.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#128

Post by [deleted] »

femto wrote: post #16

I can personally vouch for the effectiveness of a morning routine of 15 minutes of exercise at home, targeting the pelvic muscles. The only equipment required is a floor mat, if the floor is hard. I started gently and naturally progressed to a higher level, taking the attitude that there is no hurry, because I'm going to be doing this for the rest of my life, so there is plenty of time to progress. My initial routine…

[deleted]

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#129

Post by bayonetz »

hiisukun wrote: post #97

At one time someone close to me was experiencing back pain, we both saw a lovely episode of the TV series 'Louie'. Here is a quote from that episode: Dr. Bigelow: What can I do for you? Louie: Uh, well, I hurt my back today really bad. Uh. Can you help me with my back? I mean... Dr. Bigelow: What's wrong with your back? Louie: It hurts. Dr. Bigelow: My professional diagnosis is your back hurts. Louie: Well, what can…

It's funny 'cause it's true. I wish more doctors, physical therapists, and other related care givers would just get real about the limits of what they can and can't do. There are so many things they do skillfully and reliably, why pretend about the others? I always wonder if maybe it's just the doctors I have access to via insurance. All the ones I've ever gone to seem like body mechanics with a questionable grasp on the scientific method yet they patronize you like you're an eight year old if you question their approach at all. Sorry to get ranty -- had a year long bout with back pain that I ultimately fixed myself with intense lifting (squats and deadlifts) that my care givers repeatedly told me to avoid. It wasn't until I ignored them that I got any better.

Re: The $100B per year back pain industry is mostly a hoax

#130

Post by tbrake »

fizixer wrote: post #54

Advice on back pain based on personal evidence (single data point). - Did squats and deadlifts for the first time at age 33. Did them for 1 year. At age 36, again did them for 3 months. (I'll get back into it again once I'm done with my current hectic schedule. Planning on doing at least 3-6 months every year). - Here's how I sleep: No mattress. I create layers out of (bottom to top): - Solid floor, - Carpet or rug,…

I sleep on an 'ultra firm' mattress but every now and then I get the urge to spend a night on a hard surface setup similar (though a little thinner with the padding) to yours.

No idea if it's good, bad or neutral for my back health overall. Doesn't seem to be hurting and I've no history or experience of back pain, but like you say, single data point here too.

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