Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google • Hacker News Board

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#121

Post by ekianjo » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:28 AM UTC

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #41

nradov wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Google services no longer have competition?

Google Search for a start. Youtube is effectively standing alone in the space. Google Maps is completely dominating the space (in particular there is nothing that replaces the Earth product or the parts of Earth in maps). Gmail is taking over the world over here. Most local mail solutions are irrelevant at this point and the only real alternative to gmail even intentionally is outlook now. Chrome effectively took out…

> Google Search for a start.

DuckDuckGo isnt one?

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#122

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:35 AM UTC

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

I like Google too. And I like the search engine returning products if it thinks they are relevant. But the issue behind EU commission was that they found Google purposely lower the ranks of relevant competitor's results nearly off the front page without merit.

The typical argument is that Google can do that because it is their search agent. But they did not express it explicitly in their terms of service.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#123

Post by nashashmi » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:37 AM UTC

ekianjo wrote: post #120

criddell wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing me and it pretty much comes down to trust. I trust Google a lot more than I ever trusted Microsoft back when they were the bully.

Why do you trust Google a lot more? What did they do to deserve your trust?

They gave things away for free.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#124

Post by ojbyrne » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:40 AM UTC

tuxracer wrote: post #26

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

> nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome Unlike iOS you can install different browsers on Android directly from the Play Store. These can actually be different browsers with their own rendering engines not just alternative UIs on top of Chrome. Firefox on Android for example uses the actual Firefox rendering engine, not Chrome.

I see Firefox and Chrome and several other browsers in the iOS AppStore.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#125

Post by kuschku » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:42 AM UTC

benchaney wrote: post #24

falsedan wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point was, you can choose not to use Yelp and your life will fine and dandy; not so much with google.

The opposite is actually true. If you are being slandered on yelp you cannot just choose for it to end. On the other hand you can use another search engine or advertising firm without any problems.

If Google removed my page from its results, or penalizes it, how do I get the same users to see my website again?

I mean, that’s what you’re saying. I can get the same users to see my site when they search for it without having to rely on Google.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#126

Post by quadrangle » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:48 AM UTC

mrunkel wrote: post #13

I find all this hand wringing over Google to be so tiring. Google is doing what is best for it's customers. Be that advertisers and/or searchers. If they stop doing that, they'll lose their market dominance. Last I checked, nobody is forced to use google to search for things, nobody if forced (except for perhaps android users) to use Chrome. I'm not a laissez-faire capitalist by any means, but I don't see that Google…

It's not about whether a monopoly is fair or "unfair", it's about whether it provides power that they can abuse and is thus worse for the public interest.

Google got their monopoly fairly enough, maintain it through a mix of fair and questionable practices, and definitely uses their monopoly now in ways that are anti-competitive.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#127

Post by quadrangle » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:50 AM UTC

notatoad wrote: post #59

simion314 wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the point here is that Google is not returning the best results but pushing it's own other services on top of the list even if in this case other review services are better.

It's displaying ads above the search results. That's what google does. It's their whole business. It's not pushing their own review services over yelp, it's advertising alongside search results.

No, when Google just lists local businesses and puts them on a map, that's NOT ads. Businesses get listed at no charge.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#128

Post by nindalf » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:51 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #88

mattnewton wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..why didn't they go to yelp then?

To a large percentage of Internet users, entering something into the Google search bar IS how they go places. (The address bar is a very strange mystery to plenty of people.) That's a big part of why Google is not permitted to act the way they are. They have become more or less the front door to the Internet, and hence, cannot unfairly prioritize their own products over others'. A big part of why tech users don't und…

This behaviour is encouraged by Chrome. The address bar prefers to suggest searches over the user's own history, ensuring that even a website they visit every other day will likely trigger a Google search. Firefox, on the other hand, has a strong bias towards history, allowing the user to go straight to their destination.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#129

Post by quadrangle » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:52 AM UTC

bitmapbrother wrote: post #73

It doesn't get much more despicable than Yelp. They've been threatening and extorting small businesses for years. There's an upcoming documentary film that exposes them for who they truly are. >Billion Dollar Bully is an investigative documentary that examines allegations against Yelp regarding extortion, review manipulation, and review fabrication. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2dkJctUDIs

Sure, but a despicable company may still have legitimate complaints about other companies.

Re: Yelp’s Six-Year Conflict with Google

#130

Post by edoceo » Wed, Jul 05, 2017, 1:53 AM UTC

ocdtrekkie wrote: post #88

mattnewton wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

..why didn't they go to yelp then?

To a large percentage of Internet users, entering something into the Google search bar IS how they go places. (The address bar is a very strange mystery to plenty of people.) That's a big part of why Google is not permitted to act the way they are. They have become more or less the front door to the Internet, and hence, cannot unfairly prioritize their own products over others'. A big part of why tech users don't und…

And in chrome the address bar is hijacked to be a Google search