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Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

1843magazine.com

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Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#121

Post by polm23 »

karmajunkie wrote: post #67
65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of truth in that. Still, the bit about the guy who went to law school and decided not to practice, opting instead to play video games, and for whom finances were no biggie because parents... Jiminy Christmas, WTF is up with that.

America has a surplus of lawyers, which makes running a successful practice or getting a job as a new graduate harder than it's ever been.

http://www.houstonchronicle.com/business/article/A-glut-of-l...

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#122

Post by flukus »

karmajunkie wrote: post #74
sandworm101 wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And how many of those boomers have themselves slipped into the alternate realities of drugs and alcohol? If you are going to distract yourself, videogames are better than drinking. The remark in the OP about the father having to change a baby while playing a game is telling. That father could put his gaming on pause. A generation ago, how many fathers in similar situations were catatonic with a bottle in one hand? Ra…

I read that same passage and wondered who was paying attention to the kids? Great, Dad's got some buddies who will lay down some cover while he changes a diaper. What's the kid get out of that deal?

Not a rash, that's what the kids gets.

Edit - And yes, that's a big step for a lot of kids with alcoholic parents.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#123

Post by graeme »

wallace_f wrote: post #81
graeme wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many jobs do not provide (marginal utility > income) to society, and many even produce negative marginal utility. What are some examples of this? Why are people paying those workers?

>Why are people paying those workers? In short, in modern, mainstream economic theory the ideas that explain this are what's called Market Failures . In 2001, the Nobel Prize in economics went to people who studied information asymmetries, which lead to market failures. A concrete and classic example is the Tragedy of the Commons. My earlier example of the financial sector, which in 2008 showed everyone how private g…

How would UBI solve this? If the jobs were still profitable to the employer, they'd be done. It's not clear to me how UBI solves market failures.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#124

Post by lovich »

brightball wrote: post #51
JDiculous wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if that's the case, is that a bad thing? Should we not have the freedom to spend our own time as we please in a post-scarcity society?

I keep hearing that term lately...but nobody can explain to me how post scarcity is even possible

We already have classes of goods/services that are post scarcity. Music for instance is post scarcity in that it costs effectively nothing to reproduce. Before anyone argues creation of _new_ music is not post scarcity.

Anyway as manufacturing techniques improve more item will become post scarcity or effectively so if we can provide all the demand for an item for little to no cost.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#125

Post by astrange »

chongli wrote: post #70
yummyfajitas wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does a UBI prevent this? The people described in the article don't seem to want more money. They want to play video games. Giving them enough money to live off of would allow them to do exactly that while producing nothing of benefit to society. Right now, at least, some of them seem marginally productive (contractors, the cashier, etc). Utility, as a function of money, generally has a negative second derivative…

What happens when technology progresses to the point where they can't be productive at all? Where it simply costs money to give them a job. Are you okay with paying people to dig holes and fill them back up again?

> What happens when technology progresses to the point where they can't be productive at all?

If nobody can ever improve on anything, either everything is free or we're all dead, and in neither case do you need a job in the first place.

Just having a lot of manufacturing robots does not mean there is nothing to do!

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#126

Post by throwaway420 »

findateamfirst wrote: post #45
throwaway420 wrote: post #30

* Disappointing that the false meme about some gaming communities being hostile to women because they're women was promoted in this article. Some gaming communities are very hostile to newcomers: but it's not because you're a woman, it's because you're a noob or just suck. Welcome to one of the last remaining meritocracies. * The article makes a correct observation insofar as more men (not just an occasional sad soci…

You're horribly mistaken, likely because you haven't spent time in communities that aren't hostile to women. It's really hard to know whether your community is hostile to women unless you're a woman. A lot of guys just don't understand how much harassment a typical woman experiences, and when they hear it criticized basically fall back on "well I don't see it" and conclude it must not be happening rather than trying…

a) Where did I say that women aren't experiencing harassment on some gaming communities? In fact, I explicitly acknowledged it. Your post is kind of pointless virtue signaling or something.

b) I just pointed out that it's just generally not about your gender. It doesn't matter if you're a man or woman: every newcomer gets harassed in really rough ways using the most biting insults available. A fat guy will get the obvious insults. An ugly guy will get obvious insults. A young kid who has a high pitched voice because he hasn't hit puberty yet will get obvious insults. A gay man will get obvious insults. So will a black guy or an arab. Or a christian. They'll use any facts they know about you. And guess what, women are treated equally here as well and will get insulted. Not saying it's right, but it's what actually happens to everybody. Gamers are treating women equally, I thought that's what women wanted?

c) The only difference is that when a woman gets harassed, most of civil society is sympathetic about it by default and she'll get a horde of white knights expressing sympathy. When a man gets his feelings hurt, he's portrayed as weak for showing emotion. Maybe this is part of the reason that some men are seeking an escape from society?

d) It's really hard to know whether your community is hostile to men unless you're a man. A lot of women just don't understand how much harassment a typical man experiences, and when they hear it criticized basically fall back on "well I don't see it" and conclude it must not be happening rather than trying to collect more information. (2 of us can play this game)

e) While this is a fascinating discussion that I'd love to have, this point about sex and male/female relationships is 100 times more important than debating about harassment to women gamers for the hundredth time. Things like family and relationships are important motivating factors to men, and when social reforms (some people call that progress, some don't) remove or lower that factor for ~80% of men, civilization will also decline.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#127

Post by flukus »

ajross wrote: post #78
ganfortran wrote: post #57

That is how you got alt-right. Bad job market and on the other hand portrayed as oppressor and reminded to check your own privilege. Video game is just the surface of the underlying illness. It is cheap(per hour), and accessible source of pleasure.

You're saying... feminists invented sexism?

Invent it where they kind find real sexism? Sure, they do that all the time.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#128

Post by researcher11 »

I dropped out and retired at 31 to a third world country. I'm going to study whatever I'm interested in while the economy sorts itself out. I may never re-enter the job maket. I'm ok with that. I'm not rich but it's really cheap here. I don't want to be forced into a rental market or stock market. The jobs don't pay enough and the margins are too thin. The risk is too high and all of my statistical modeling is telling me that the debt fueled market ends in tears. Good luck with that. Count me out. Don't blame me if you can't find someone to help you build software.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#129

Post by curuinor »

nether wrote: post #114
nitemice wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same is true out here in Australia. Places like Melbourne and Sydney are crowded and expensive, but the cheaper properties are all out in rural areas, where your choice of employment is slim, especially if you made the "mistake" of training in any tech sector job.

Just live in the lame ass suburbs like everyone else. What the fuck is wrong with you people? Are you going to be on your deathbed wishing you had more squid ink pasta and museums in your life? No, you'll wish you spent more time your loved ones, which you can do anywhere.

Little bit difficult to spend time with loved ones in Korea if I'm in SF, or the converse. I have money, but plane tickets ain't cheap

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#130

Post by aaron695 »

65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

> where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations

Sorry, but this is just bullshit.

But if it makes you feel better, it's normal to think this, every generation blames the previous.

(And the older generation thinks the latest is lazy)

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