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Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

1843magazine.com

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Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#61

Post by projektir »

firstpost1234 wrote: post #26

Hard to blame anyone for spending their time doing things where success is quantifiable and quickly displayed. This is the Western countries' version of hikkikomori and there will only be more of it as education and good opportunities become out of reach for more people. Men seem more likely to do this than women because of the societal pressures on them to get a job and run the rat race of dating and climbing a none…

> Men seem more likely to do this than women because of the societal pressures on them to get a job and run the rat race of dating and climbing a nonexistent corporate ladder.

And perhaps because "taking care of themselves" pressure on women is much, much higher.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#62

Post by hdra »

ocschwar wrote: post #17
DougN7 wrote: post #5

I think this is where UBI leads if it ever happens.

That's what scares the shit of me regarding UBI. I don't mind paying for it even if it does keep young men immersed in a fantasy world. But I have a daughter. And she will be surrounded by men whose idea of women will be shaped by game characters that fail the Turing test but have big tits. I guess for her first birthday after puberty I'll have to get her a taser.

I don't believe in the idea that the video game itself is the source of the negative influence rather than the community surrounding it.

Video games from the pre-internet era was just as marketed towards the males as the it is right now, but the toxicity level is higher than ever in today's "community" focused gaming.

Overwatch is a good example of this. I applaud the developers for making such a diverse and stereotype-defying world and rosters. It is a game that includes lesbian characters, an autistic character, a beautiful Iraqi city thats not war-torn, and a futuristic African city thats not a slum. But even all that doesn't stop the player base from being toxic and harass other players for whatever reason.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#63

Post by sheepmullet »

ocschwar wrote: post #17
DougN7 wrote: post #5

I think this is where UBI leads if it ever happens.

That's what scares the shit of me regarding UBI. I don't mind paying for it even if it does keep young men immersed in a fantasy world. But I have a daughter. And she will be surrounded by men whose idea of women will be shaped by game characters that fail the Turing test but have big tits. I guess for her first birthday after puberty I'll have to get her a taser.

I think you might be worrying about the wrong thing.

Young men have much healthier views on gender equality than when I was young.

The trend I see is young men not putting in the effort to form romantic relationships and young women, rather than adjust their standards or put more effort in, trying to compete for the few guys who do measure up.

I would be much more worried that my daughter was going to end up very lonely.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#64

Post by dmoy »

sandworm101 wrote: post #50
65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

And how many of those boomers have themselves slipped into the alternate realities of drugs and alcohol? If you are going to distract yourself, videogames are better than drinking. The remark in the OP about the father having to change a baby while playing a game is telling. That father could put his gaming on pause. A generation ago, how many fathers in similar situations were catatonic with a bottle in one hand? Ra…

I don't mean to derail because I think you have a valid point, but I believe alcoholism is still a way worse problem today. If I'm remembering correctly, it's something like the same number of people die due to alcohol every year in the US as shoot themselves death (~30k)... and that's just fatalities; if we're talking family problems it's way higher.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#65

Post by [deleted] »

_m8fo wrote: post #52
65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

I completely agree with the sentiment, but isn't your own comment being dishonest? There's plenty of land in the United States, and plenty of cities that have hardly been met with the "hoarding" you mention. That being said, living in Boston, MA, I totally feel what you're saying (literally, most of the houses here are expensive, even in crappy areas).

[deleted]

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#66

Post by alphonsegaston »

Every job I've worked in my adult life has involved being judged by standards the boomers doing the judging could never live up to, and then covering for their incompetence with technical skills(because I'm young, so I can just do that stuff). It would be such a sad joke if it weren't for the fact that they squat in every opportunity young people have for their futures (real estate, higher positions, etc) while the young themselves drown in debt and exploitation.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#67

Post by karmajunkie »

65827 wrote: post #19

I really like this read, something just smells off about blaming young people for "wasting years" on video games. We've got a horribly stacked real life "game" where the boomers and elites have horded everything and fucked future generations, blaming an individual for dropping out and not wanting to really participate in that trainwreck is being dishonest at best.

Yeah, there's definitely a lot of truth in that. Still, the bit about the guy who went to law school and decided not to practice, opting instead to play video games, and for whom finances were no biggie because parents... Jiminy Christmas, WTF is up with that.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#68

Post by projektir »

ocschwar wrote: post #17
DougN7 wrote: post #5

I think this is where UBI leads if it ever happens.

That's what scares the shit of me regarding UBI. I don't mind paying for it even if it does keep young men immersed in a fantasy world. But I have a daughter. And she will be surrounded by men whose idea of women will be shaped by game characters that fail the Turing test but have big tits. I guess for her first birthday after puberty I'll have to get her a taser.

I'd be much less concerned about how women are portrayed in video games (pornography is a LOT worse in this respect), and more that the young men in question are often not very happy.

Really, this is a wider concern than someone's daughter in particular. Women are getting hit, too, it's just not as visible. It's a societal problem.

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#69

Post by Tossrock »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #46
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing UBI prevents. A large benefit of a UBI compared to the status quo is that it reduces marginal tax rates on low income people. Right now you can get a lot of assistance if you have little to no income, but if you make a dollar you lose 90 cents in benefits. Who wants to work for 10 cents on the dollar? With a UBI you make a dollar and you keep most of it, so there is more incentive to work.

How does a UBI prevent this? The people described in the article don't seem to want more money. They want to play video games. Giving them enough money to live off of would allow them to do exactly that while producing nothing of benefit to society. Right now, at least, some of them seem marginally productive (contractors, the cashier, etc). Utility, as a function of money, generally has a negative second derivative…

Twitch seems to be an existence proof against the idea that playing video games produces nothing of benefit to society. Clearly, people playing video games has produced in excess of $1B benefit to society. "Make something people want", and all.

You could argue that watching people play video games isn't a real "benefit" to society in the way that food or houses are, but I don't see it as being fundamentally different than, say, televised sports. Are televised sports of no benefit to society? What about art, or music?

Re: Young men dropping out of the job market to spend time in an alternate reality

#70

Post by chongli »

yummyfajitas wrote: post #46
AnthonyMouse wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the thing UBI prevents. A large benefit of a UBI compared to the status quo is that it reduces marginal tax rates on low income people. Right now you can get a lot of assistance if you have little to no income, but if you make a dollar you lose 90 cents in benefits. Who wants to work for 10 cents on the dollar? With a UBI you make a dollar and you keep most of it, so there is more incentive to work.

How does a UBI prevent this? The people described in the article don't seem to want more money. They want to play video games. Giving them enough money to live off of would allow them to do exactly that while producing nothing of benefit to society. Right now, at least, some of them seem marginally productive (contractors, the cashier, etc). Utility, as a function of money, generally has a negative second derivative…

What happens when technology progresses to the point where they can't be productive at all? Where it simply costs money to give them a job. Are you okay with paying people to dig holes and fill them back up again?
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