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Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

washingtonpost.com

121–130 of 169 posts

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#121
post #74

I'm sorry to all Americans who may read this and get ruffled, but what the actual fuck is wrong with your political landscape and attitudes towards workers rights? Why don't you have unions? Why do Americans seem to hate unions? Why don't you have an active political party representing workers? Why don't you have an active movement to prevent your employer from becoming overseer of your entire life? All I see day in…

Corporate and elite interests get away with this because of the propaganda of 'American exceptionalism' - people are brainwashed into thinking that we have it so much better that other countries, so don't complain. The news media is a powerful tool of control. Not watching any news at all on TV would yield a more accurate world view, that is, the news is a negative information source.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The parent poster said this: ...start companies [without loss of health care], and losing healthcare as you change jobs... Obamacare does in fact solve both these problems. According to you, how long will it take for potential startup founders to figure out that Obamacare actually gives them the ability to do a startup without losing health insurance? 10 years? 20 years? Is a person who is unaware of Obamacare after…

We have single payer here in France and we are way less entrepreneurial than the US. In fact most entrepreneurs here hate single payer as it imposes huge taxation on them for something that would be cheap under a private insurance system because most startup founders are young.

This is coming up as part of the reopening of the healthcare plan debate in the US. The nice framing of flat healthcare insurance pricing is that it "doesn't discriminate against the elderly." But an equally valid framing is that "younger people subsidize older people."

But this question is really at the heart of insurance mandates however imposed. In the absence of such, young healthy people don't want to pay for insurance because they don't really take into account unlikely events and they look at the health care they're likely to need for routine accidents, etc. and the insurance looks far more costly than their expected benefit (and it is).

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#123
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> why not just start your own and fix it? Because the State punishes you if you start emitting? It's called spectrum allocation. Just because you can technically start a company doesn't mean you have anything resembling a free market, and in fact the examples you gave (wireless and healthcare) are two of the most regulated industries. That doesn't mean the free market wouldn't be even worse than what we have now. It'…

Yes I'm sure no FCC would surely mean that wireless spectrum would remain usable. Apparently the laws of physics are an invention of the state.

Like I said, maybe the result would be even worse. But that doesn't mean one can blame the current mobile internet situation on the free market, since it definitively isn't one.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#124
post #106
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people I know--in the IT industry, obviously--flatly refuse to recognize that a union could be a good thing Usually this includes knee-jerk arguments against dues, mandated wages/salary, and other aspects of existing/older unions. It seems like many people implicit assume that a union must involve a list a of traditional practices. A union can be what you want it to be. If you don't want it to cover someth…

SAP in Germany was getting union representation just when I was doing an internship there about 10 year ago. The move wasn't popular with employees.

Why was that? Unionized engineers in Germany (like in the automotive industry) are the highest paid and get the most benefits. Why would they be against it, given that if you don't enjoy red tape, you probably won't work at SAP to begin with?

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#125
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

By "end us" I mean end our civilization... extinction is unlikely.

In that case, my question still stands. I'm asking because I frequently see this kind of climate change alarmism on forums (it's the end of civilization, billions will die, etc) but my sense from an admittedly cursory reading of the estimates is that the dangers of climate change are likely to be an epic refugee crisis from coastal flooding, famine, and war. Hundreds of millions will die, and many more will see a sub…

Average temperature rises, icecaps melt, sea levels rise, shores recede. Think about where most of the global tech and financial infrastructure currently is.

edit: Apparently I didn't read your comment; you understand that the coasts will be lost. Not only do the more sparsely populated inland regions not have the infrastructure to take in the coast dwellers, but the core instruments of modern civilization will literally be underwater.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#126
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Almost 50% of US citizens don't have enough money on the bank to replace a broken 400$ item. How many would out of desperation i.e. healthcare costs for relatives sell an organ? 1: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2016/05/my-secr...

You seem to be implying that is a bad thing. What is wrong with that? Allowing them to donate organs gives them more choices. Who owns a person's body? And donating the organ helps people who needs organs. The person who donates and the person who receives do this voluntarily if they feel they benefit. I think it's deplorable that people are dying from lack of organ donations while there are people with healthy organ…

Having a compulsory 'lottery' for organ donations for all would help both groups too.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#128
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a lot of people I know--in the IT industry, obviously--flatly refuse to recognize that a union could be a good thing Usually this includes knee-jerk arguments against dues, mandated wages/salary, and other aspects of existing/older unions. It seems like many people implicit assume that a union must involve a list a of traditional practices. A union can be what you want it to be. If you don't want it to cover someth…

It seems like many people implicit assume that a union must involve a list a of traditional practices. It's not an assumption that it must, it's a recognition that very likely, it will. Organizations aren't created in a vacuum, they require bringing in others, and if you're starting an union, you'll attract people who are already predisposed to all the ideas of what makes up a union, and you'll attract offers of help…

> no valid reason to believe that you'll be able to control that process

People aren't interested in small-scale organizing for specific purposes because strong, traditional unions are too popular? Why aren't the same people you claim will "control [the] process" making a union now?

Yes, just like every other type of organization, a union - or business - can evolve beyond it's original purpose. There are no guarantees in most collective actions. However, arguments that assume an inevitable strong union in industries where unions are very unpopular do not seem to be based in reality.

> you must have a better reason to convince them why it won't be one

The tech industry has been very successful at inventing new types of organizations over the last several decades. The "gig economy" and Bitcoin/Etherium are obvious examples. Silicon Valley is popular because of how easy it is to invent new businesses. Sometimes this creativity extends to new ways to fund startups. A lot of the tech itself revolves around new types of social interaction.

I find it very hard to believe that unions - or collective bargaining in general - are somehow immune from "disruption" and creative reinterpretation.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#129
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In that case, my question still stands. I'm asking because I frequently see this kind of climate change alarmism on forums (it's the end of civilization, billions will die, etc) but my sense from an admittedly cursory reading of the estimates is that the dangers of climate change are likely to be an epic refugee crisis from coastal flooding, famine, and war. Hundreds of millions will die, and many more will see a sub…

I also don't think that global warming will end civilization for the same reasons as you. However, a refuge crisis, wars over food and water and hundreds of millions dead will be a heavy blow that might set us back for a long time. There is little money for colonizing Mars when you have to spend it all for killing revolutionaries.

It'll also be pretty hard to colonize Mars when SpaceX and Florida no longer exist.

Re: Employees who decline genetic testing could face penalties under proposed bill

#130
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a world with mandatory genetic testing, genetic engineering in order to "give your child the best possible start" will definitely ring true.

I wonder what traits we'll program for? Intelligence, maybe, but that's tough to manage and I'd guess that without a complete understanding you'd get a lot of madness. Physical traits will be easier to select for, especially gross ones like size and overall strength. Selecting out congenital illness would be another step. If you could though, if you had a clear understanding of how Trait A and cluster of genes/epigen…

> I wonder what traits we'll program for? Intelligence, maybe, but that's tough to manage and I'd guess that without a complete understanding you'd get a lot of madness.

That's an understatement that belies human laziness. The real predictor of success, almost no matter how you define success, is about the effort you put in. Good genetics is usually a micro-optimization on effort expended. But if you ever told people that they were genetically Destined™ or Guaranteed™ to succeed, that's precisely what will cause them to discredit effort, sit back on their laurels, and wait for the not-so-inevitable money to start rolling in. When it doesn't, their failure will breed resentment and conflict.

> I wonder if people would really want that?

People want to be at the intersection of attractive and unique. Attractive is more or less easy to control for - genes for attractive figures, full heads of hair, clear skin, no disabilities. Unique is far more difficult, and would only get more difficult if sizable pluralities or majorities of parents started to select on the same Recommended™ or Best Choice™ genes, and generations start to look like cookie cutter clones of each other. Most probably, you'd end up with some classic tragedy of the commons, and the government would have to step in to regulate what would end up being a finite resource (being genetically unique, with a genetic monoculture being especially dangerous considering the Darwinian requirement for genetic diversity to promote survival) if the market's natural price pressures didn't self-correct. And if you think the rich and powerful will allow the government to allow anybody but their children to have the beauty and desirable qualities which will keep them at the head of their parents' empires, well, I have a history book on feudalism to sell you.

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