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Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

fearlesssalarynegotiation.com

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Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#121

Post by jholman »

user5994461 wrote: post #79
iamthepieman wrote: post #19

I've got raises as high as 206% by switching jobs. Most recent switch a little over 2 years ago resulted in a 20% raise which is much more typical. Never had more than a cost of living increase otherwise (2-3%), My strategy is to move when I stop learning. It maximizes both my enjoyment (learning challenges me and gives me motivation beyond a paycheck which is good for me and my employer.) and my potential earnings.

> 206% So it proves that it's possible to get decent people at 206% under the market :D

/commence well-actually mode

If that's how you do math, the sky's the limit.

206% means x3.06, so (s)he was previously making 1/3.06 of the new rate, which is roughly 32.7% of the new rate. Assuming the new rate was "at market", the old rate was 67.3% below market.

Math like that is why I make the big bucks. (I do not currently make the big bucks.)

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#122

Post by dfabulich »

vroombaprime wrote: post #99
dfabulich wrote: post #48

I often see articles like this talking about getting a "raise," but the steps they talk about seem more in line what I'd think of as getting a "promotion" (along a technical track). Is "getting a raise" the same thing as "getting a promotion" for the purposes of this discussion? If I get a promotion every two or three years, am I also supposed to be trying to negotiate a non-promotion raise every 12 months?

General case (if you are at a startup this doesn't apply): Getting a raise and promotion are different things, though sometimes promotions happen at "raise time" (yearly review cycle). There are also "out-of-cycle" raises but those are generally for special cases where you need market adjustments or are a star performer. You _need_ to be getting a raise every 12 months just to keep up with inflation. If the company i…

Well, yes, now that you mention it, those little across-the-board raises have occurred.

I guess, to rephrase my question: am I doing myself a disservice if I'm not negotiating "raises" at my current pay grade but only attempting to earn "promotions" (which of course include pay increases)?

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#123

Post by [deleted] »

user5994461 wrote: post #79
iamthepieman wrote: post #19

I've got raises as high as 206% by switching jobs. Most recent switch a little over 2 years ago resulted in a 20% raise which is much more typical. Never had more than a cost of living increase otherwise (2-3%), My strategy is to move when I stop learning. It maximizes both my enjoyment (learning challenges me and gives me motivation beyond a paycheck which is good for me and my employer.) and my potential earnings.

> 206% So it proves that it's possible to get decent people at 206% under the market :D

[deleted]

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#124

Post by meric »

jaimex2 wrote: post #120
nikatwork wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being in that situation is so satisfying. Boss: HR won't give me the money for your raise. Employee: I quit. I've been offered more money elsewhere. Boss: No wait actually I can get that extra money Employee: Too late, kthxbai

+1 Never take a counter offer. You'll get more pay but you're stuck in the same company run by the same narrow minds.

In my experience narrow minds can be expanded.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#126

Post by op00to »

redwards510 wrote: post #76
byoung2 wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never seen it happen successfully. I've done it at least half a dozen times in my career. I was told "the maximum we can give is a $7k raise since there is a fixed pool for raises in the department." I said if I quit and you have to replace me, not only will you have to hire 2 devs to replace me (as I pulled dev and sysops duty) and pay them market salaries, you will have to pay a recruiter 20-30%. They still wo…

> They still wouldn't budge, so I got a counteroffer for $30k more than I was making, Getting a counteroffer is not the same as what the OP is suggesting. Using another job offer as a leverage for a raise is not recommended by most experts. Just google "Should i accept a counteroffer?". Mainly because you create bad blood at your current employer and you have to be ready to follow through on your threat. Also, that e…

When considering this tactic, ask yourself one question: "Do I work for psycopaths, or for (relatively) rational human beings?" If rational, go ahead and let them know the market rate of your labor by showing a competing offer, knowing full well that you're ready to take it and move on. It's only business. If you work for psychopaths, just take the offer and leave because fuck that shit.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#127

Post by cormacrelf »

dwightgunning wrote: post #47
JustSomeNobody wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure it's a weakness, but they (management) don't care. If the developer leaves, they'll hire another and in the mean time the remaining devs get to pick up the slack. It's actually a convenient excuse for the schedule slipping; they blame it on the developer who left because he "wasn't a team player", even though management knows the real reason is because they simply don't ... know ... how ... to ... manage.

The type of company and management I'd recommend people strive to work with prefers to retain good staff rather than hire fresh.

Hiring itself and losses from going without are very expensive, I find it weird that any company wouldn't rather retain. I wouldn't ever be surprised that hiring cost $10k all up.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#128

Post by morgante »

ryandrake wrote: post #75
vogt wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since Oct 2012, I've gone from $32k, to $44k, to $75k, to $85k (and killer benefits) now. None of these were in SF, NYC, LA, Boston or Austin. All from switching jobs.

One thing not mentioned a lot in this discussion is that those triple- and double-digit increases tend to only happen early in one's career. Later in your career, it gets very difficult to find a different company that is willing to pay you even 10% more than you're making. You definitely will hit a ceiling at some point. My last job hop probably did not result in more than a 1% bump or so. So, Junior Engineer going…

> Senior Engineer going from $150K to $175K is going to be rarer. Super-Senior Engineer going from $190K to $225K seems unlikely (but probably does happen from time to time).

I don't think either of those are particularly rare. If you're learning and negotiating aggressively, the salary ramp is very steep.

There is absolutely a ceiling, but it's probably closer to $300k than $150k.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#129

Post by Can_Not »

zo1 wrote: post #118
Can_Not wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> apparently the guy that replaced me wanted to prove his value by rewriting the whole architecture. So they spent a whole year doing that which I'm sure is much cleaner than the original under the hood, but to the end user, it is not apparent Anecdote: We had a guy show up, he claimed that we had to do a rewrite. We spent 2 years catching up to the base product. Complete waste of time, had to fire him 1 year into th…

What position did he come in as? Seems awfully odd to have a new-hire making such a decision. From the sounds of it, he effectively tied up resources for almost a year before being pushed out? There are two problems there, from what I can ascertain: 1. The guy wanting to rewrite your product. 2. Management that allowed him to do so without proper motivation and/or cost-benefit analysis.

I was a noob at the time and had assumed he was a minimum of 1 year experience better than me and really knew what he was talking about. He used great business terms and convinced the non-techies, too. In retrospect, it's a very obvious mistake. He convinced us the open source project that we based our business on for the 6 months before hiring him had limitations, but it turns out that the open source project was packed full of features, well polished, well designed, easily extensible, etc. and we spent 2 years catching up to where that product was, just in a different framework.

Re: Software Developers: how to get a raise without changing jobs

#130

Post by AlwaysRock »

cormacrelf wrote: post #127
dwightgunning wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The type of company and management I'd recommend people strive to work with prefers to retain good staff rather than hire fresh.

Hiring itself and losses from going without are very expensive, I find it weird that any company wouldn't rather retain. I wouldn't ever be surprised that hiring cost $10k all up.

If a company only used external recruiters for any position above 100K it's going to cost them 15K+. More likely 25K. Now if they try on their own as well by posting jobs, hiring internal recruiters, network... Hiring is expensive.
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