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China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

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Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#121

Post by rrggrr »

dave2000 wrote: post #31
auganov wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn't that the nature of almost every conflict with an ethnic context? If there's no clear weaker and stronger you usually end up with two independent states. The way Tibet was Incorporated into China, the nature of the Tibetan resistance, the way China governs Tibet, the reason China wants Tibet, the reason China represses Tibetans are all very very different from what's happening in Judea and Samaria. The Israeli A…

No, it's perfectly meaningful to talk about Israel/Palestine - and by extension the US - when criticizing actions by China. Otherwise you end up with the same narrative you get in pretty much every media outlet in the world; whatever the US does is good, no terrorism or support for murderous dictators there (cough south america..cuba...saudi arabia..iran...iraq...indonesia etc etc etc ), and whatever China does is ba…

Discouraging. Demolishing Larung Gar was likely on China's to-do list, but was probably moved-up in response to Obama's meet with the Dali Lama last week. China's real motivation in Tibet is water, arable land and secondarily eliminating a religious threat to central party rule. Everything else is pretense. Israel's motivation in Palestine is its own security from universally acknowledged threats it faces from its neighbors. There is no longer any occupation, no Israeli sovereign claim over Palestinian sovereign territory, and there are no resources to grab and no pretenses needed for Israel to justify its actions. A better comparison would be Russia in Crimea, where under the pretense of protecting a pro-Russia minority, Putin makes a grab to control oil and natural gas resources in the area which Ukraine previously sought to exploit.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#122

Post by fnordsensei »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypocrisy though is defined by "the presence or absence thereof".

That is a Western view of things where spiritual and material realms are different. Dharmic religions consider the spiritual realm to be a superset of the material, not separate from it.

You meant to write "the spiritual realm to be a superset…", I'm sure.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#123

Post by [deleted] »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #107
coldtea wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hypocrisy though is defined by "the presence or absence thereof".

That is a Western view of things where spiritual and material realms are different. Dharmic religions consider the spiritual realm to be a superset of the material, not separate from it.

[deleted]

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#124

Post by xiaoma »

jacquesm wrote: post #51
xiaoma wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow your reasoning... are you implying that trade with China is more important for the entire western world than international trade with the all the west is to China? I could certainly see leaders in certain countries such as France who have been actively selling weaponry to China going "to help cart the rubble personally" but there's no way Obama or his next successor would do that.

> are you implying that trade with China is more important for the entire western world than international trade with the all the west is to China? Yes, we are utterly co-dependent at this point in time. Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage.

> Cutting trade with China would take a decade or more if it can be done at all at this stage.

This belief is clearly a failure of imagination.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#125

Post by cscurmudgeon »

fnordsensei wrote: post #122
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is a Western view of things where spiritual and material realms are different. Dharmic religions consider the spiritual realm to be a superset of the material, not separate from it.

You meant to write "the spiritual realm to be a superset…", I'm sure.

Gah!

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#126

Post by Idontreddit »

mhuffman wrote: post #4

Wow! It is amazing that we do not consider this a human rights violation. Oh well, gotta keep them prices low at Walmart!

If that is a human rights violation then what do you call the US, Australia, etc?

The native americans, aborigines, etc are in far worse situation than the tibetans.

I love the hypocrisy we have. I wonder if the china realize the hypocrisy.

Maybe we should return the US, australia, etc to the natives before spouting hypocritical nonsense about human rights.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#127

Post by Idontreddit »

the_ancient wrote: post #22
mattmanser wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's what you did with Cuba and Iran and Iraq and Russia and etc., etc.

Yes but Cuba, Iran, Iraq, and Russia are not willing to supply US Companies with near indentured servants to make our stuff,then use the worthless paper they get for the stuff, to buy a different type of worthless paper that allows the US Government to build more war machines, and other things.

It isn't the "indentured servants" that make china attractive, it's their huge market.

I love how the internet trash also spout the same idiotic nonsense.

China may have a lot of workers, but they also have a lot of buyers as well.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#128

Post by andy_ppp »

I do not understand the cowardice and fear the Chinese government seem to have of a small buddhist settlement in the middle of nowhere high up in the mountains of Tibet... It looks like they feel the opposite of a superpower and that a few buddhist monks might threaten them so much they have to destroy them. It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#129

Post by toyg »

intended wrote: post #110
snnn wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I edited the reply and removed the description of shower. My remark was not meant as a slight on them. I just want to show you what I know about them. Most people do not have a chance to see how poor Chinese lives, because the information you can get is controlled by China propaganda machine. Beautiful Beijing, huge international airport, rich buyers. Even you already have a Chinese Visa, you can't travel to T…

Yes? They would get a better human right record eventually? Firstly - China doesn't have a great human rights record right now. They have an excellent economy. The earlier communists themselves have one of the worst human rights records. And you don't "convince" anybody. You let them choose for themselves. Without that part - without being able to choose a bad choice, people can't learn from those mistakes. You think…

> You think the west learnt from someone else?

"The west" learnt diddly squat, but even if we assume "we" did -- the most significant turn-point of Western history in the last 150 years was the Holocaust. Are we saying any ethnic conflict on the planet will have to go through a holocaust before anyone "learns"?

> Thats why India has Gandhi

... and still discriminates and kills Muslims on a massive scale, even after partition.

> South Africa has Mandela

... and is now all but enacting white-discrimination in public institutions.

My point is that the concept of history as a progression of "lessons" is optimistic at best, and if we don't keep pushing at all times, things can revert to shit pretty quickly. UK news this week were a sober reminder that we are not all as civilized as we pretend to be.

Re: China issues demolition order on world’s largest religious town in Tibet

#130

Post by ams6110 »

toyg wrote: post #129
intended wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? They would get a better human right record eventually? Firstly - China doesn't have a great human rights record right now. They have an excellent economy. The earlier communists themselves have one of the worst human rights records. And you don't "convince" anybody. You let them choose for themselves. Without that part - without being able to choose a bad choice, people can't learn from those mistakes. You think…

> You think the west learnt from someone else? "The west" learnt diddly squat, but even if we assume "we" did -- the most significant turn-point of Western history in the last 150 years was the Holocaust. Are we saying any ethnic conflict on the planet will have to go through a holocaust before anyone "learns"? > Thats why India has Gandhi ... and still discriminates and kills Muslims on a massive scale, even after p…

Human nature is tribal, by evolutionary dictat. Not much ever will change that at a base level.
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