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American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

theatlantic.com

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Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#121

Post by curioussavage »

sandworm101 wrote: post #118

>> The 2010s, in contrast, are a terrible time to not be brainy. That sums it up. Intelligence doesn't matter, rather the appearance of intelligence gets one ahead. Appearing "brainy" counts more than actually being brainy. TheBigBangTheory is part of that trend. Intelligent people are expected to project a particular image. IRL that never happens. Many very smart people couldn't care less for trek, comics or any of…

While I agree mostly with what you said initially. IMO if you think your "smart" or "dumb" based on the results of standardized tests then either way you are just a gullible fool. Standardized tests are designed to sort people based on what they can remember/understand at a given moment in time. A very crappy measure of 'intelligence' (whatever that word really means) indeed.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#122

Post by kofejnik »

PeterStuer wrote: post #117
smt88 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assessments are not consistent with facts. You imply that the media is a distorting lens, but then you go on to espouse views that come entirely from the media. I'm not sure I understand that. The US is becoming less religious, and it is the least religious it has ever been. People aren't increasingly idolizing stupidity or loving the rich, or Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders wouldn't have done as well as they di…

Yes, i accept that the media is a distorting lens, that is why I specifically put this in as a disclaimer, but not living there it is the only lens I have available. I'll give you Sanders as a point in showing at least an attempt at curbing extreme neo-liberalism, but Trump seems (to me) like the front runner in the race to 'idiocracy'.

There's very little doubt that Trump is an extremely smart person. Also, see http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali...

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#123

Post by back_beyond »

mevile wrote: post #88
leakybit wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, your value is not based on your intelligence but on your ability to generate economic value.

Human worth is intrinsic and absolute. It depends on nothing and is granted simply for existing. It cannot be taken away. The commission of crimes will result in a loss of freedoms and rights, but not human worth. Economic value however is not meaningless. It represents a measure of contribution to the capital engine that powers our lives. The whole system however is completely unfair and biased since the actual econ…

>> Human worth is intrinsic and absolute.

Do you have a citation?

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#124

Post by curioussavage »

PeterStuer wrote: post #99

As a non-American, and so 'judging' America only through the media, it does feel like the complete opposite. Deep ingrained anti-intellectualism, idolization of stupidity and love of the brazen and the rich. Scary decline of the sciences and rapid expansion of superstitions. Of course this does not apply to this here readership, but at least from an outside perspective we see 'idiocracy' surging onto the stage at bre…

Canadians and Europeans love to look down on Americans, we already know this. Thats all your comment adds is an example of that. People and movements (including the Trump supporter movement which you are alluding to) are very complex. And frankly you just don't understand.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#125

Post by aplummer »

"based on a candidate having a critical skill or two and on soft factors such as eagerness, appearance, family background, and physical characteristics..."

I don't know if the author is trying to make this sound _better_ than today, considering "physical characteristics" often meant "white and male".

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#126

Post by sandworm101 »

curioussavage wrote: post #121
sandworm101 wrote: post #118

>> The 2010s, in contrast, are a terrible time to not be brainy. That sums it up. Intelligence doesn't matter, rather the appearance of intelligence gets one ahead. Appearing "brainy" counts more than actually being brainy. TheBigBangTheory is part of that trend. Intelligent people are expected to project a particular image. IRL that never happens. Many very smart people couldn't care less for trek, comics or any of…

While I agree mostly with what you said initially. IMO if you think your "smart" or "dumb" based on the results of standardized tests then either way you are just a gullible fool. Standardized tests are designed to sort people based on what they can remember/understand at a given moment in time. A very crappy measure of 'intelligence' (whatever that word really means) indeed.

>> Standardized tests are designed to sort people based on what they can remember/understand at a given moment in time.

Maybe the knowledge-based tests such as the SATs, but there are plenty of aptitude tests that are not based on memorized knowledge.

I also think it is naive to assume that there is some testable form of intelligence completely devoid of cultural knowledge. Someone may be very smart, but if they lack the basic tools to express themselves within a culture then those smarts are behind a real bottleneck.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#127

Post by tonyedgecombe »

kofejnik wrote: post #122
PeterStuer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, i accept that the media is a distorting lens, that is why I specifically put this in as a disclaimer, but not living there it is the only lens I have available. I'll give you Sanders as a point in showing at least an attempt at curbing extreme neo-liberalism, but Trump seems (to me) like the front runner in the race to 'idiocracy'.

There's very little doubt that Trump is an extremely smart person. Also, see http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali...

I have quite a bit of doubt about that.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#128

Post by elcritch »

back_beyond wrote: post #123
mevile wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Human worth is intrinsic and absolute. It depends on nothing and is granted simply for existing. It cannot be taken away. The commission of crimes will result in a loss of freedoms and rights, but not human worth. Economic value however is not meaningless. It represents a measure of contribution to the capital engine that powers our lives. The whole system however is completely unfair and biased since the actual econ…

>> Human worth is intrinsic and absolute. Do you have a citation?

Actually yes [1]^^:

``` We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed ... ```

[1]: Declaration of Independence, http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transc...

^^Offer not valid in all locations.

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#129

Post by djur »

kofejnik wrote: post #122
PeterStuer wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, i accept that the media is a distorting lens, that is why I specifically put this in as a disclaimer, but not living there it is the only lens I have available. I'll give you Sanders as a point in showing at least an attempt at curbing extreme neo-liberalism, but Trump seems (to me) like the front runner in the race to 'idiocracy'.

There's very little doubt that Trump is an extremely smart person. Also, see http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberali...

I don't see how your link to an article written by a writer who was censured for advocating riots against Trump is evidence that he is a smart person. Can you explain in any more detail?

Re: American society increasingly mistakes intelligence for human worth

#130

Post by WalterBright »

curioussavage wrote: post #120
WalterBright wrote: post #84

Anti-intellectualism runs deep in American society. Consider the words nerd, wonk, geek, brainiac, college boy, the negative Hollywood stereotypes, etc. The Big Bang Theory is the latest incarnation of that. My father learned to keep his book collection out of the living room.

I disagree. Citing a few labels is easy, Hollywood and popular culture have stereotypes for every kind of person. Everybody thinks they are the persecuted group. I think the opposite. America most certainly worships intellectuals, who control public education. So starting at age 5-6 kids are brainwashed into thinking that they are 'stupid' if they can't do arithmetic in their head, or remember all the inane rules of…

Check out the mania (and enormous $$$) around sports and sports figures, actors, and musicians. I can't recall a nerd ever getting an endorsement contract. The only nerd prize is the Nobel; the Oscars, Emmys, Grammies, Halls of Fame, Heisemann Trophies, etc., are for other professions.

Just for a small slice of it, the mania over the Olympics. Billions and billions of dollars, wall-to-wall TV coverage, of 2 weeks seeing who can run faster than the next.

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