Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK • Hacker News Board

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#121

Post by TTPrograms » Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 4:57 PM UTC

dredmorbius wrote: post #115

TTPrograms wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there reason to think that bacteria with every gene for antibiotic resistance would be at all viable? It seems likely that these genes have other negative effects on fitness that make them unlikely to spread significantly in the absence of the antibiotic.

The tendency, under selective pressures, is for organisms to become more fit over time. By applying constant antibiotic-induced generalised selective pressure, you're greatly increasing those odds

"More fit" only makes sense with regards to the pressure. I.e. the bacteria may survive antibiotics, but that may come at the expense of general pathogenicity.

The fact that the gene is not already widespread suggests that in the absence of the selective pressure of the antibiotic it has other effects that decrease fitness in a typical environment.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#122

Post by _oej6 » Wed, Dec 23, 2015, 7:03 PM UTC

TTPrograms wrote: post #121

dredmorbius wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tendency, under selective pressures, is for organisms to become more fit over time. By applying constant antibiotic-induced generalised selective pressure, you're greatly increasing those odds

"More fit" only makes sense with regards to the pressure. I.e. the bacteria may survive antibiotics, but that may come at the expense of general pathogenicity. The fact that the gene is not already widespread suggests that in the absence of the selective pressure of the antibiotic it has other effects that decrease fitness in a typical environment.

I agree with your statement if it was a single (or a limited number of) species of antibiotic resistance bacteria.

But, the problem seems to be that they'll be acting more like a gang (where each gang member is a species of bacteria) by multiplying and transferring their weapons (in this case, antibiotic resistant MCR-1 gene) among different bacteria species by means of horizontal gene transfer[1].

Here, horizontal gene transfer means bacteria don't need to carry the "general pathogenicity" as parts of its genome and transfer to future generations (by sexual/asexual re-production)[2]. They only have to be good (and will be damn good by MCR-1 gene) at whatever pathogen they carry. "Horizontal gene transfer" will take care of the rest.

I think we'll get a better idea of the problem I'm trying to explain if we look at it from "Unix philosophy" perspective which "favors composability as opposed to monolithic design"[3]. I hope that I'm decidedly proven wrong in this regard. But, it's just a hope.

Note:

I don't have any formal education/background in medical sciences.

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[1] http://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-30...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horizontal_gene_transfer

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#123

Post by gugagore » Mon, Dec 28, 2015, 1:00 AM UTC

robotkilla wrote: post #114

jMyles wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Eating a factory cheeseburger is akin to racism? Seriously? This is a logic fallacy. Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari? Maybe these people all live their lives based on a logical fallacy, but I don't think it's so far wrong. Both racism and factory farming come down to disrespect for 'the other.' > Racism comes from the i…

> Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari? A central tenet of rastafari is to abstain from antibiotic raised meat? Can you cite a source on this? Even if this is true, why do you think that the religious beliefs of this or other religions holds any sort of sway over people who are not in those religions? For example, you do reali…

> So the progress we've made in the United States through laws and regulations regarding race and gender is a lie then?

It's a very misleading sort of progress. It helps many people believe that we're post-racial and that sexism doesn't happen.

Re: Bacteria that resist 'last antibiotic' found in UK

#124

Post by robotkilla » Sun, Jan 03, 2016, 2:32 PM UTC

gugagore wrote: post #123

robotkilla wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you realize that there are several religions that hold this exact tenet? And that it's one of the central tenets of Rastafari? A central tenet of rastafari is to abstain from antibiotic raised meat? Can you cite a source on this? Even if this is true, why do you think that the religious beliefs of this or other religions holds any sort of sway over people who are not in those religions? For example, you do reali…

> So the progress we've made in the United States through laws and regulations regarding race and gender is a lie then? It's a very misleading sort of progress. It helps many people believe that we're post-racial and that sexism doesn't happen.

What on earth would be a less misleading progress? This comment seems to imply that separate but equal is a better solution.

I think that many people have confused "changing minds and hearts" with "forcing the public to accept and integrate". The laws and regulations I'm referring to are about enforcing rights, often times basic human ones.