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This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

okwu.edu

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Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#121

Post by lagadu »

maaku wrote: post #21
lagadu wrote: post #3

I find it baffling that there are people, in the real world, who somehow think that for unexplained reasons they have the right to not be offended or be made to feel uncomfortable. Somehow they believe that their feelings are the responsibility of everyone else.

While I sympathize with your viewpoint, perhaps I can shed some clarity on the other side. The concern is not feelings getting hurt, but rather physical security as a person of minority status. This is something that a white heterosexual middle-class male (such as myself) can probably never fully appreciate, but I try to sympathize. Imagine what it is like to be black in a country where just a few generations back yo…

I understand what you're saying but I feel that equating "I fear for my physical integrity" to "someone is talking about something I dislike" is a bit of leap.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#122

Post by adventured »

coldpie wrote: post #82
Juliate wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea that people's feelings should come first (especially before truth/understanding of reality) is not uncomfortable, but a dangerous, misleading, childish posture. University is for adults, not toddlers.

> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality No one is arguing for this.

In fact it's being very openly argued all over the place in US culture today. The recent famous video of the Yale professor that was trying to talk rationally to the irrational students around him - it was all about the students claiming they had a right to not be offended, and the notion that their feelings trumped freedom of speech.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#123

Post by SmokyBorbon »

Overtonwindow wrote: post #85

This is really fantastic. While I don't agree with religion in university (but if it works for you great!) I completely agree with the gist of her argument. Students are coddled too much. If you're not uncomfortable then you're not paying attention. If you need "trigger warnings" or "safe spaces" at a university then you're not ready for university, or at the very least, you have a lot of growing up to do. This may s…

> While I don't agree with religion in university

Catholics invented the university. Secular universities are cultural appropriation. This is like saying you don't approve of Japanese in anime.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#124

Post by coldpie »

orik wrote: post #113
coldpie wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Folks need to have thicker skin Why? Congratulations on being such a paragon of excellence. Why should we require such virtue of all humans? Instead of expecting you to develop a thick skin (are you sure this is a good thing?), why can't we try to reform your aggressors in the first place?

Because reforming all possible aggressors ever is an uphill battle you'll never solve. Imagine you have an API that receives a POST with some JSON. Every time your API receives a malformed POST, your application crashes or hangs. Do you a) try to do your best to make sure no one ever POSTS to your uri with malformed data, or do you b) rewrite your API to be more robust and send back an error code when malformed input…

> Because reforming all possible aggressors ever is an uphill battle you'll never solve.

I don't believe this is true. Human behavior can change. Relative to its levels 500 years ago, we've all-but eliminated physical violence in first-world countries. I don't think it's much of a stretch to believe we can all-but eliminate emotional violence as well.

We're dealing with human beings, so I didn't read your JSON analogy, sorry.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#125

Post by mgr86 »

chillingeffect wrote: post #76
sago wrote: post #6

I think the world would be better if, before you're allowed to respond to someone being wrong, you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. Because 'political correctness' isn't the cancer at the heart of social politics, it is straw-manning. On both sides of every issue. I'd be surprised, perhaps even amazed, if Dr Piper had represented the complaint in any way…

> you have to first be able to express their position in a way that they agree represents their view. This habit is extremely powerful. There's no way to require people to do it, but people who do it, at least know the arguments of their opponents, are in such a better position to get what they want that people who don't are left standing, mouths open wondering what happened. And it's extremely timely as just two wee…

I agree it is powerful but it is also just effective communication. I try to do it a lot with my girlfriend on things we don't necessarily agree. I'll paraphrase her position to ensure that my response is correct. ...Sadly, that is sometimes met with "No, are you even listening". But hey, at least at that point she rewords it to get her point across.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#126

Post by coldpie »

adventured wrote: post #122
coldpie wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The idea that people's feelings should come first, especially before truth/understanding of reality No one is arguing for this.

In fact it's being very openly argued all over the place in US culture today. The recent famous video of the Yale professor that was trying to talk rationally to the irrational students around him - it was all about the students claiming they had a right to not be offended, and the notion that their feelings trumped freedom of speech.

I'm sorry, I don't know what video you're referring to. What rational point was the professor trying to make? That white people dressing in racially-charged costumes should not be shunned?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#127

Post by yummyfajitas »

SolaceQuantum wrote: post #108
yummyfajitas wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually white heterosexual middle class males can totally appreciate these things. Imagine what it is like to be white/asian in a country where a disproportionate number of crimes are committed by black men and where black on white crimes are 5.6 times more common than white on black crimes [1]. Imagine what it is like to be Christian when a disproportionate number of terror attacks are committed by Islamic types. M…

I'm asian. I don't feel threatened by black crime when it's also shown that police target black people for arrest more than whites and that the system is often stacked against black people. I'm more uncomfortable that white males are shooting up schools in my country several times a year because there's nothing being done pointing this demographic out. Your experience doesn't reflect the experience of all others.

What gives you the right to invalidate my father's feelings? You don't understand his lived experience (he was present at a major Islamic terrorist attack) at all!

I believe that's the standard social justice retort to your claims.

Being a more logically minded person, I'll instead invert it; your retort to my comment is that one person in the aforementioned demographic (e.g. a white/asian male) doesn't agree with me. If I could find one person in your aforementioned demographic (e.g. a black female) who didn't agree with you, would that be a valid retort against your comment?

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#129

Post by webXL »

balabaster wrote: post #114

It doesn't take long watching social media trending tags - particularly on Twitter to notice that there is definitely a trend of this kind of sentiment among the demographic of the social media outlets. While the article may (or may not be, I really have no idea) a fabrication, my observation is that the sentiment towards playing the victim and labeling others as haters and bigots is extensive. Being brought up Chris…

What happened to just treating others as you wish to be treated in return?

You just made me feel bad about all the times I wasn't empathetic. Not really, but witness how deeply ingrained our ability to use and feel guilt is.

Re: This Is Not a Day Care. It’s a University

#130

Post by EthanHeilman »

ucaetano wrote: post #12

"Oklahoma Wesleyan is not a “safe place”, but rather, a place to learn" Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places". They should not be safe places, they should be places where you feel confronted, challenged and threatened by different ideas and points of view.

>Exactly, I don't get why people are trying to make universities, workplaces, clubs, or anywhere else "safe places".

I'm not directly disagreeing with you here or putting words in your mouth. I realize you are not saying safe spaces should not exist. Instead I want to make the argument that having safe spaces is reasonable.

People make safe spaces _within_ universities and other institutions for the same reason some combat veterans with post-traumatic stress disorder put up signs asking neighbors not to set off fireworks[0]. It is to avoid triggering people that have have experienced serious trauma[1].

For instance using the combat veteran example, it would be unreasonable for a veteran to attend a fireworks show and then complain about the fireworks, but if this same combat veteran was attending University and it would be reasonable to ask the University to provide a safe space away from fireworks or other triggers -- sound proofed dorms if students are constantly setting off fireworks.

There is a big difference in intention between 'safety from conflicting points of view' and safe spaces. Although a safe space sometimes requires limiting certain discussions (a person who was sexuality assaulted might be triggered by discussions and depictions of sexual assault).

[0]: http://www.militarywithptsd.org/fireworks-triggers-ptsd-and-...

[1]: http://www.nimh.nih.gov/health/topics/post-traumatic-stress-...

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