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Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

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Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#121

Post by TillE »

odiroot wrote: post #95
hyperion2010 wrote: post #62

Based on the photo at the bottom they are going to fail the same way that many other US cities have failed when trying install bike lanes. You MUST put the parked cars between moving traffic and bikes. If you do not bikers are going to get hit and doored and will obstruct turn lanes. Pretty much everywhere in Europe gets this right. Traffic -> parking -> bikes -> peds. How did the US get everything completely backwar…

I wouldn't say pretty much everywhere. Probably only in Amsterdam. In Berlin it's mostly: cars | bikes | parking | pedestrians (raised sidewalk). In Warsaw (for example) it's: cars | parking | bikes (part of the sidewalk) | pedestrians (raised sidewalk).

You're wrong about Berlin. The vast majority of bike lanes are part of the sidewalk.

They're really haphazard and frequently blocked (Amsterdam is probably the ideal, IMO), but cars are parked between them and the road.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#122

Post by gozo »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #84
gozo wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I think the situation is ridiculous, I also can't help thinking that if you're one of the most successful companies in the world and you can't get this done. It's either not that great of priority for you or you're doing something wrong.

Nope, it's something Google would really love to see. You have to remember that as the Goliath in the room, Google has to be somewhat careful about how hard they try to persuade local governments, as many residents already dislike how quickly they've grown and how that's contributed to rents going up and traffic getting worse. And Google has made a bunch of improvements themselves, like, I believe, the buffered bike…

I was more thinking of compromising. Making deals is, at least to some extent, what business is about and I don't see the differences as insurmountable. Maybe Google don't play nice with others, but there's firms that do that too in exchange for money.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#123

Post by icebraining »

sandworm101 wrote: post #119
icebraining wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? In bike-friendly places, yes. http://www.workcycles.nl/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/bakfie... And what about the growing number of people who need to be brought places, who cannot drive themselves? There are a great many people with special needs/requirements who will never be able to move themselves safely by bike or a…

No, but Copenhagen is a tiny little place and still has lots of private cars. Either they aren't living in the bike-only core, or they have use of a car. A total switch to bikes, away from private motor vehicles by all, is a very different scenario than current copenhagen.

A total switch to bikes, away from private motor vehicles by all, is a very different scenario than current copenhagen.

And it's also a scenario that no one is proposing.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#124

Post by TulliusCicero »

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

> At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people.

This is because our infrastructure sucks, so only young and fit people feel confident enough to bike around. In cities with high biking rates, that's not the case. Biking around for leisure is actually a stereotypical 'old person thing' in the Netherlands.

> I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle?

If you go to a place with better infrastructure like Denmark, this is, in fact, exactly what you see. I visited Copenhagen this last summer and pretty much everyone there got around on bikes. I saw something similar, albeit to a somewhat lesser extent, in Munich and Lübeck, which aren't as good at biking as Copenhagen but still have lots of protected bike lanes.

I already take my son to daycare on my bike in Sunnyvale, but I'm a relatively confident rider. Confident enough to continue doing so even after we got hit by a car yesterday morning.

Here's a comment about biking in the bay area from a Dutch guy on the somethingawful forums:

> I think the expectations thing is a big problem, especially combined with bikers being (having to be) more obnoxious in the US. When I just arrived, I was shocked with how much all the bikers broke the rules (skipped lights, biked on the curbs etc.) and just were general assholes in traffic. Two weeks later I was one of them.

People in the US think lots of things are impossible on a bike, when really they're only impossible when the infrastructure is bad. Which, to be fair, is true almost everywhere in the US. If we made it good instead, those things would become possible.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#125

Post by happycatbasket »

Pxtl wrote: post #86
TulliusCicero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptable amount of time, unless you actually make an effort at going fast. OR, unless you get an eBike. Which, while more expensive than a regular bike, are still vastly cheaper to purchase and operate than a car. A good pre-built eBike will probably sell in the $1000-200…

I think it's tragic that ebikes have become the domain of drunks and losers. We have the perfect solution to global warming and urban intensification right there, and no self-respecting person will use it because it's a tool of the underclass.

Coming from a cyclists perspective, I always assumed that eBike riders were laypeople who just wanted to pay for the convenience to make the daunting task of pedaling seem like less of a deal.

It's truly tragic that bikes as a form of transport has been regulated to the domains of college kids, hipsters, fitness buffs, and enthusiasts.

< 15 miles is manageable for most people if they don't give up the first day they're sore.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#126

Post by kuschku »

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

Again, what Copenhagen seems to have realized – what you haven’t, yet – is that neither type of transportation solves all cases.

That’s why we need a healthy mix of cars, bikes, transit, etc. And which is why none of the mentioned European cities actually wants to ban cars – but instead use cars as supplement to a transportation system based on walking, biking and transit.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#127

Post by superuser2 »

lambda wrote: post #120
sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

This is not about replacing cars with bikes, but making biking a viable alternative, such that it is actually possible to get from point A to point B by bike without taking a substantial risk of being killed by substantially faster car traffic. No one actually expects to replace all cars with bikes. But replacing 20% of them would substantially cut down on congestion and emissions; and avoiding further growth in auto…

>but making biking a viable alternative

I think the (well-founded) concern is that this expenditure of political capital means mass transit may not get the attention it deserves. Public transit can be ridden by anyone; bicycles are only useful to the able-bodied.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#128

Post by TulliusCicero »

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

Also, the idea is not to switch ALL driving to biking. That would be silly. The idea is to support and encourage biking where it makes sense. If you're doing short or medium-distance trips where you have limited cargo, biking can work very well, better than cars, both for the individual and for society at large. But only if we build our transportation infrastructure such that biking isn't dangerous.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#129

Post by sandworm101 »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #124
sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

> At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. This is because our infrastructure sucks, so only young and fit people feel confident enough to bike around. In cities with high biking rates, that's not the case. Biking around for leisure is actually a stereotypical 'old person thing' in the Netherlands. > I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to…

It's more than the infrastructure, especially when it comes to schools. North America has a culture of selecting a child's schools from amongst many in a wide area. Not everyone sends their kids to a school a mile down the road, nor do all of their kids attend the same school at once.

The getting hit is a problem. I don't know of any long-term riders in my city who haven't had violent confrontations with cars. There is even a movement towards fitbits not for fitness but to use as evidence after the inevitable accident, evidence of how long it takes to recover.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#130

Post by TulliusCicero »

zyxley wrote: post #88
TulliusCicero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptable amount of time, unless you actually make an effort at going fast. OR, unless you get an eBike. Which, while more expensive than a regular bike, are still vastly cheaper to purchase and operate than a car. A good pre-built eBike will probably sell in the $1000-200…

Having used one for a while, the extra weight and general clumsiness compared to a normal bike becomes a huge discouragement to casual riding.

I haven't had the opportunity to ride one myself, but my understanding is that they're steadily getting better on that front. Mid-drive improves balance, for example: https://www.electricbike.com/mid-drive-kits/

And if the infrastructure is good enough, a lot of people will deal with some clumsiness. Lots of people in Denmark and the Netherlands use bike trailers or cargo bikes, and having had a chance to use them, believe me, those are DEFINITELY clumsy.

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