Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#111

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:17 PM UTC

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle?

And what about the growing number of people who need to be brought places, who cannot drive themselves? There are a great many people with special needs/requirements who will never be able to move themselves safely by bike or any other vehicle. They and their carers should not be cut out of city planning, nor should they be confined to special communities.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#112

Post by Florin_Andrei » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:17 PM UTC

URSpider94 wrote: post #55

nkassis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"It seems people in the US fetishize road bikes with drop bars and skinny tires as the 'best and fastest' kind of bike" I don't think that true. The general opinion I've seen where I live is that bikes are toys and paying above a few hundred for one is ridiculous. I do agree that you probably don't want a race oriented road bike if your goal is to commute to work a few miles but if you enjoy the sport and know what y…

Outside the Bay Area in the US, I see a lot of hybrid and mountain bikes. In Silicon Valley, there's definitely a preference for multi-thousand $ road bikes -- and people ride them, hard. Still, riding your carbon race bike to the office is akin to driving your Ferrari to the grocery store -- uncomfortable on rough roads, no storage space, and when you get there, where do you park?

When I bought my road bike, I tried to optimize the hell out of the performance/price ratio. You could get a pretty good road bike for less than $2k, or quite a bit less than that with some effort. Choose a store with good prices, and use all the discounts and sales you could get your hands on.

This was a few years back, but I got mine for $1200. Granted, this was in the middle of a massive sale, but still. It's even got a carbon fiber fork (but aluminum frame).

Frankly, not being Lance Armstrong, I don't care about the last few percentage points of performance. All I care is how much I get for the buck I pay, and whether I get a decent bike or not. Keep the chain lubed and the tires rock-hard, and the thing flies on most roads.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#113

Post by sliverstorm » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

Pxtl wrote: post #86

TulliusCicero wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The unfortunate situation is that if you are over 10 miles to your office ( which many are ) you will have a hard time making that commute in a acceptable amount of time, unless you actually make an effort at going fast. OR, unless you get an eBike. Which, while more expensive than a regular bike, are still vastly cheaper to purchase and operate than a car. A good pre-built eBike will probably sell in the $1000-200…

I think it's tragic that ebikes have become the domain of drunks and losers. We have the perfect solution to global warming and urban intensification right there, and no self-respecting person will use it because it's a tool of the underclass.

I think ebikes are just seen as cripplingly uncool, and there is a bit of a feeling that it's the lazy way out.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#114

Post by TulliusCicero » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:20 PM UTC

ChuckMcM wrote: post #102

TulliusCicero wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Two things: Remington & Homestead don't connect to Stevens Creek Trail, and Mary & Bernardo aren't East-West streets. You said they were adding protected bike lanes, are any of those protected? Off the top of my head, I can't think of any protected bike lanes I've seen in Sunnyvale.

Fair enough, I would ride Remington to Bernardo, up to Heatherstone and then along Heatherstone to the trail entrance. We may have a different definition of protected, I think of the lanes on Remington as protected but they are created by striping, not curb work, so it isn't like there is a lane all to itself. If you want to get involved, you can talk to the council at the BPAC meetings : http://sunnyvale.ca.gov/City…

> We may have a different definition of protected, I think of the lanes on Remington as protected but they are created by striping, not curb work, so it isn't like there is a lane all to itself.

Ah, that explains it.

So, you're talking about painted bike lanes (regular single stripe of paint to separate). There are also buffered bike lanes (extended painted area that separates bike lanes) and protected bike lanes (some kind of physical barrier between cars and bike lanes). There are many different options for separating bikes from cars, but if you're just using paint it's not considered protected; the ones in this link all are protected except for the first: http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/14-ways-to-make-bik...

The reason why this distinction is important is that average people are vastly more likely to feel comfortable riding in a protected lane than an unprotected one (note: sometimes protected bike lanes are referred to as 'physically separated'): http://www.peopleforbikes.org/blog/entry/selling-biking-perc...

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#115

Post by icebraining » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes?

In bike-friendly places, yes. http://www.workcycles.nl/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/bakfie...

And what about the growing number of people who need to be brought places, who cannot drive themselves? There are a great many people with special needs/requirements who will never be able to move themselves safely by bike or any other vehicle. They and their carers should not be cut out of city planning, nor should they be confined to special communities.

Do you think people in Copenhagen who can't drive themselves are confined to special communities? Do you think they don't have roads and cars?

If anything, less cars on the roads makes it easier and safer for them to move around.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#116

Post by trhway » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

natrius wrote: post #97

trhway wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

until people learn how and, more importantly, willing to build good urban space, as a resident of MV (or of SV in general as i lived in other near by cities before) i am even against current 3 story "barracks" being actively built all over the place. For example, one can build 30 story (plus 10 underground for parking/storage/etc...) towers with enough green space around it instead of covering all available space wit…

Towers surrounded by green space has been tried, with mostly negative results. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Corbusier#Criticism Good urban space is mostly about how nice it feels to be on a street. You want a comfortable amount of walking space, destinations that are close together, and that's pretty much it. Surrounding buildings with parks makes walking harder and less pleasant. There's probably enough demand f…

>Towers surrounded by green space has been tried, with mostly negative results.

on 2D surface the density can be done only by growing into the 3rd dimension. The only issue is how to do it. The ratio between height, footprint and total capacity i think reaches its worst value in the current style of development in the Valley (as a result of developers ripping best value in profit possible inside the municipally imposed limits)

>Surrounding buildings with parks makes walking harder and less pleasant.

as if walking on a concrete sidewalk between 3-story wall and the traffic lanes in the open under CA midday Sun beats it :)

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#117

Post by sliverstorm » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:21 PM UTC

gozo wrote: post #59

DannyBee wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They tried, multiple times, and were explicitly rebuked http://www.mv-voice.com/print/story/2012/07/13/google-housin... http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/26/technology/google-plans-ne... etc It comes up every few years.

While I think the situation is ridiculous, I also can't help thinking that if you're one of the most successful companies in the world and you can't get this done. It's either not that great of priority for you or you're doing something wrong.

... or an example of the strength of NIMBYism and the empowerment of the vocal few in California politics to roadblock progress.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#118

Post by Oompa » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:22 PM UTC

mc32 wrote: post #64

To my mind, one of the main issues, in addition to protected bike lanes is the spread. Bike friendly cities are more compact. Commuting to work via bike is not a strenuous fifteen mile commute one way. They tend to be leisurely few mile rides. Now, not to say it's not possible, but a one to five mile bike ride is not the same as a ten to fifteen or more miles bike ride. Now, I do like Copenhagen's above ground bike r…

> I'd also like to see "turning boxes" where to make a left you go to a perpendicular boxed out area on the right and wait for your light. They have these in Asia for scooters and bikes.

These are popping up all around SF, its very nice. Thanks SF Bike Coalition!

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#119

Post by sandworm101 » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

icebraining wrote: post #115

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? In bike-friendly places, yes. http://www.workcycles.nl/workcycles-bakfietsen-images/bakfie... And what about the growing number of people who need to be brought places, who cannot drive themselves? There are a great many people with special needs/requirements who will never be able to move themselves safely by bike or a…

No, but Copenhagen is a tiny little place and still has lots of private cars. Either they aren't living in the bike-only core, or they have use of a car. A total switch to bikes, away from private motor vehicles by all, is a very different scenario than current copenhagen.

Re: Google Wants to Make Silicon Valley as Bike-Friendly as Copenhagen

#120

Post by lambda » Wed, Sep 23, 2015, 9:23 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #111

I do laugh at the image of society at large switching from cars to bikes. At the moment biking is dominated by young fit and generally healthy people. That may be silicon valley but it isn't the general population. I see lots of young parents going to work by bike, but do they take their kids to school on bikes? Does grandma get to the doctor on a tricycle? And what about the growing number of people who need to be b…

This is not about replacing cars with bikes, but making biking a viable alternative, such that it is actually possible to get from point A to point B by bike without taking a substantial risk of being killed by substantially faster car traffic.

No one actually expects to replace all cars with bikes. But replacing 20% of them would substantially cut down on congestion and emissions; and avoiding further growth in automotive traffic is likewise important.

And yes, I do see parents taking their kids to school by bike; in fact, my father used to do it with my younger brother some 25 years ago, and just yesterday I passed one of my neighbors heading up our very steep hill with her child on the back of her cargo bike.

There isn't a zero-sum game to be played between cars and bikes. Improving bike infrastructure can lead to reduced congestion for cars, fewer bad interactions between drivers and cyclists, etc.