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Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

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Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#111

99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name. Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. The alternatives for the moment are gratis, patronage, "native advertising", and subscriptions. Few of these strike me as ultimately scalable. I've been a fan of Phil Hunt, of Pirate Party UK, and his broadban…

> Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. Another viable option is letting a lot of the content die. I'm sure we can all live without knowing that one neat trick that you won't believe. In your proposal: > ... constant challenge for any creative type is making a living. Well perhaps if that's the cas…

Another viable option is letting a lot of the content die.

I quite agree with that. Weaponized viral clickbait most especially.

what you do is not valuable to anyone.

Unfortunately for that premise, there are far, far, far too many counterexamples of those who've created hugely valuable works but have died destitute.

Looking beyond the strictly entertainment arts, just addressing a common trope of capitalism: that it's an engine of and greatly rewards innovation.

The tale of the unrewarded genius is legion, one set of substantiation is presented in Gregory Clark's A Farewell to Alms looking at key inventors of the early Industrial Revolution: John Kay, James Hargreaves, Richard Arkwright, Samuel Crompton, Reverend Edmund Cartwright, Eli Whitney, and Richard Roberts.

Of the list, Kay, Hargreaves, and Roberts died in poverty. Crompton and Cartwright were granted substantial payments by acts of Parliament (£5,000 and £10,000 respectively), Whitney made money through arms sales to the U.S. government, and of the lot, only Arkwright earned significant wealth, half a million pounds, after his patents stopped being honored by other manufacturers.

See also numerous authors, musicians, artists, playwrights, etc., who've created masterworks but were underappreciated in their own day.

That said, I do agree, somewhat, that the Universe does not owe you a living at your chosen task.

But a bigger issue is that information and markets are very poorly matched.

Market mechanisms work best where goods are uniform (either individually or on aggregate average), their qualities are readily determined (or again tend to average out well), where the fixed costs of production are low and marginal costs of production high (relative to one another), and externalities, both positive and negative, are small relative to market price.

Information goods violate virtually all these assumptions.

⚫ Quality is highly variable.

⚫ Quality assessment is difficult, and often frustrated by other factors (e.g., pay-to-publish journals, "friendly" colleague peer reviews, discussed recently by +Joerg Fliege).

⚫ Variance of individual instances is high enough that averages rarely suffice.

⚫ Fixed costs of production are high, particularly for research, also to an extent for selection, review, and editing.

⚫ Variable costs of production (e.g., publication) are low. In fact we're utilizing a system which was specifically created to reduce those costs still further, Tim Berners-Lee's World Wide Web, developed to transmit physics papers between CERN, SLAC, and other related facilities.

⚫ Information goods typically have very high positive externalities -- they benefit those who don't directly consume them. In the case of Dr. Grimm, those who would benefit by treatment of conditions informed by his research. Occasionally they have high negative externalities -- e.g., smallpox, "superflu", or weapons research.

https://plus.google.com/u/0/104092656004159577193/posts/7Eer...

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Something tells me that you benefit daily from the efforts of people who had difficulty earning a living from their craft at some point. Do you listen to music, watch television or movies, appreciate art, read books or web content? The creators of those things didn't all start out as highly acclaimed millionaires. Most of them spent years making things that weren't valuable to anyone. There are an abundance of people…

And yet, despite this apparently dire situation, their output still exists.

But who is benefiting from its existence? The creators or the current license holders?

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#113
post #39

99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name. Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. The alternatives for the moment are gratis, patronage, "native advertising", and subscriptions. Few of these strike me as ultimately scalable. I've been a fan of Phil Hunt, of Pirate Party UK, and his broadban…

I used to think a broadband tax was a good idea, but I now worry that it would give politicians too much leverage over content producers. It is easy to see how they would try to ban porn, non-mainstream ideology and other inconvinient content from the system.

too much leverage

The wars over public broadcasters are a significant case in point.

That said, the opposite of bad governance is not no governance but GOOD governance.

Among the reason public broadcasting entities are so vigorously opposed is that they are independent (to some extent) from the "commercial realities" of publishing and broadcast.

A system designed with no explicit limitations on who can or cannot be paid (or what works qualify) is an ultimate argument for "let the public decide". I actually differ from this in part through some selection and graduated payment system proposals -- there is fast-and-easy work which really doesn't require much incentive to produce, and highly detailed work which does require resources (e.g., international investigative journalism, scientific research).

I do see a need for graduated payment scales.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#114

99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name. Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. The alternatives for the moment are gratis, patronage, "native advertising", and subscriptions. Few of these strike me as ultimately scalable. I've been a fan of Phil Hunt, of Pirate Party UK, and his broadban…

That tax idea seems fraught with issues to me. It talks about the BBC as a comparison, and I'm a great admirer of the BBC, but I'm not sure that's a relevant model for internet as a whole. The Beeb is governed by a specific charter covering what it should and shouldn't do. And whilst there's theoretically no government interference in day to day content, there is an explicit understanding that the government could pu…

"That tax idea seems fraught with issues to me."

All the more reason to discuss it and explore what those issues might be.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#115
post #28

99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name. Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. The alternatives for the moment are gratis, patronage, "native advertising", and subscriptions. Few of these strike me as ultimately scalable. I've been a fan of Phil Hunt, of Pirate Party UK, and his broadban…

There is also a very detailed plan for something like a broadband tax by Philippe Aigrain: http://www.sharing-thebook.com/

Thanks, taking a look.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#116
post #26

99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name. Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. The alternatives for the moment are gratis, patronage, "native advertising", and subscriptions. Few of these strike me as ultimately scalable. I've been a fan of Phil Hunt, of Pirate Party UK, and his broadban…

>99% of online advertisers give the rest a bad name >My own sketched proposal: http://www.reddit.com/r/dredmorbius/comments/1uotb3/a_modest... See, the intense irony in your comment is that you are effectively advertising your own content using exaggerated, overhyped claim. If you consider such actions to be a net negative for the society, you are a part of the problem. I do not disagree with you on principle and you…

Yes, I introduced some related thoughts I've had into the discussion, which is what HN is about -- "Anything that good hackers would find interesting". We're looking at an aspect of the problem, I'd like to see discussion of possible resolutions. The one Hunt and I are proposing seems relevant (and other than a few essays, I've not been pursuing it all that much).

My direct benefit? Discussion of elements of the proposals (I've seen some agreement, challenges, and related suggestions in the discussion above) and a possible slight uptick in awareness and mindshare around the concept.

I do find it downright amusing that an entrepreneurial site engenders criticism for entrepreneurship in the area of ideas themselves. Though not entirely surprising.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... constant challenge for any creative type is making a living. Well perhaps if that's the case what you do is not valuable to anyone. People have trouble coming to terms with the fact that they don't necessarily deserve to earn a living because they're doing something they like. It's like people are incapable of growing up anymore.

The only person who deserves to make a sweeping statement like yours is someone who has never pirated a piece of music, never read a free article, or never watched a YouTube video. You are not that person. No one is. If you ask me, you are the parasite here, not the musician who wants to make a living.

I'm afraid this reply makes no sense at all.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Not only is this why online advertising is ultimately doomed, but it's why we hugely and desperately and badly need to find another way of paying for content. Another viable option is letting a lot of the content die. I'm sure we can all live without knowing that one neat trick that you won't believe. In your proposal: > ... constant challenge for any creative type is making a living. Well perhaps if that's the cas…

You are seriously equating "selling ice" to "making music"? I thought HN was had smart people. These are the kind of juvenile arguments I've seen snotty 13 year olds make on Reddit.

Explain the juvinality. A serious business it was sailing to capture ice from an iceberg and damn sight harder in the context of the time than playing guitar.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#119
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With such a proposal I'm not surprised how ca a party of technically skilled people and intelligent people ever come up with such a dumb idea. There are plenty of obscure artists that were able to monetize their work to a certain degree. Now are they making millions? No. They do make a small chunk of change though. With the internet and access to so many good songs the value of a song has decreased and the entertainm…

> With such a proposal! Isn't UK the place where you have to pay license fees to watch television? Those fees are then used to support outfits like BBC. So it isn't a far stretch to imagine a similar broadband tax. I'm not supporting the tax; I'm just saying that to someone who grew up in the UK with a "license fee" model of television, a broadband tax isn't an intellectual leap, it just feels like an extension.

True that's a weird way of doing things it's practically state/tax sponsored television owned by "the public".

Plus I think you don't have to pay the fee if you can show that you don't own a television.

Not certain I agree with that model either.

Something about the person paying it not having a choice always rubs me the wrong way.

Why do i have to pay if I don't watch the BBC or download pirated stuff.

Re: Yahoo Homepage – Now Featuring Extra-Scammy Scams

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That tax idea seems fraught with issues to me. It talks about the BBC as a comparison, and I'm a great admirer of the BBC, but I'm not sure that's a relevant model for internet as a whole. The Beeb is governed by a specific charter covering what it should and shouldn't do. And whilst there's theoretically no government interference in day to day content, there is an explicit understanding that the government could pu…

"That tax idea seems fraught with issues to me." All the more reason to discuss it and explore what those issues might be.

Which is what I've just done.
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