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Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

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Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#111

Post by pyre »

Shivetya wrote: post #42
vdaniuk wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's hilarious. People in Russia support Putin exactly because there are virtually no free mass media. This is one of the latest steps to block access to all media channels that may oppose Russian cleptocratic government.

don't always believe what you read here, there are a lot of Russians who want to relive the glory days, real or perceived. Just because we in the West don't like him doesn't mean much to them, if anything it might bolster his image there. plus, considering what our President(s) do/done where do we have room to brag/gloat? I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad.

> I cannot find those news articles where Putin is using drones to kill his citizens abroad.

Maybe that's because of lack of free Russian media...

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#112

Post by pyre »

insuffi wrote: post #96
exelius wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is spot on. Russians had a ton of structure for ~70 years, then one day all of that disappeared. Outside the big cities, things did kind of go to shit for a long time, with many youth addicted to drugs or simply jobless and desperate. This led to a rise in extreme nationalism among the youth, who pine for the "good old days" when Russia was a global superpower. You know those racist, alcoholic rednecks in Alabam…

Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying. Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments? Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip,…

> directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments

> how about the US in the last 14 years [...] Iran

Maybe I'm missing something, but when did the US overthrow Iran's government in the last 14 years? Or Syria for that matter?

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#113

Post by userulluipeste »

insuffi wrote: post #96
exelius wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is spot on. Russians had a ton of structure for ~70 years, then one day all of that disappeared. Outside the big cities, things did kind of go to shit for a long time, with many youth addicted to drugs or simply jobless and desperate. This led to a rise in extreme nationalism among the youth, who pine for the "good old days" when Russia was a global superpower. You know those racist, alcoholic rednecks in Alabam…

Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying. Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments? Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip,…

Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments?

What did Russia in Georgia with Abhazia and South Ossetia? How about Republic of Moldova where Russia still holds a standing army with no legal status? (It's the former 14th USSR army, which just happen to remain on the Moldova's territory after the fall of USSR, but to submit to Moscow nevertheless, and which was/is being used to support the so-called Pridnestrovian Moldavian Republic, BTW.)

P.S.: Please, don't use USA's action to justify Russia. If crimes are being committed by someone somewhere doesn't mean that a crime are no longer a crime.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#115

Post by mark_l_watson »

pyre wrote: post #112
insuffi wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just to make it clear, I don't disagree with your first two paragraphs regarding nationalism and alcoholism, but your apologetic attitude for the US is somewhat worrying. Except for Ukraine, which is a controversial subject, when was the last time Russia directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments? Now, how about the US in the last 14 years - Iraq, Afghanistan, Venezuela, Haiti, Gaza Strip,…

> directly threatened a sovereign nation and overthrew their governments > how about the US in the last 14 years [...] Iran Maybe I'm missing something, but when did the US overthrow Iran's government in the last 14 years? Or Syria for that matter?

You are right - we overthrew Iran's government way back in the 1950s, not recently. Their president was a popular moderate (a medical doctor I think). Then we forced the Shah of Iran on the Iranian people.

In my lifetime I believe that we have tried to overthrow 30+ governments around the world when in the interests of America's financial elite.

Do you know what I consider patriotism to be? It includes admitting things that we did wrong and try very hard to do better in the future.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#116

Post by cyphunk »

spindritf wrote: post #13
cyphunk wrote: post #3

It sounds evil but balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium. The NSA/GCHQ scandal only pushed it a little further. We all know that any great medium starts out as a bastion of understanding, sharing and common good until a bunch of trolls show up to ruin it all (ahem, reddit, ycombinator, digg, etc). Until that moment we enjoy all the…

balkanisation of the Internet is a natural result of the erosion of trust in corporations and other stewards of this medium Not even close. This is another regime looking to suppress dissent, just like China has been doing all along. They don't trust their own citizens, not "corporations and other stewards of this medium." You're buying a flimsy excuse for cracking down on free speech. Their problem has never been th…

The statement you quoted of mine doesn't directly relate to Russia at all, considering that other democratic nations are taking the same steps and many citizens, even in the EU, are asking for the same. Russia is different, I understand. However to imply that their actions were not influenced by the actions and complacency of Western nations is to assume they are fools.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#117

Post by mark_l_watson »

BugBrother wrote: post #104
insuffi wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just like it was the russians in Odessa that burned all those people alive? Please. Russia barely supports anyone in the east. Even NY times(the newspaper that was fully pro Iraq war) went in, talked to the separatists and found out they're just pro federalization. Your blind hate for Putin is apparent. You'll start blaming earthquakes in Oklahoma on him soon.

I ask one question to recognize astroturfing from the Putin junta: If you check the larger democracy indexes, they have started to show Russia as "authoritarian" now, i.e. not democratic at all. Is that a Western conspiracy?

Well define democracy.

I have a good friend who is an Israeli citizen and he has been complaining for the 20 years I have known him that his country's politics are so warped by the people he calls 'the rich American assholes' (like AIPAC) who fund the right wing in Israel that sometimes his country does not seem to be such a good democracy. Imagine a whole lot of external money being injected into the politics of your country - you would probably not like it either.

As for my country, the USA: we are certainly a democracy but there is so much cheating via gerrymandering, etc. that I feel like we have lost something very precious since the end of the second world war when our financial elites started to step up their game.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#118

Post by happyscrappy »

bad_user wrote: post #74
happyscrappy wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you haven't heard: "The Five Eyes are cooperating with various 3rd Party countries in at least two groups: The "Nine Eyes", consisting of the Five Eyes plus Denmark, France, the Netherlands and Norway. The "Fourteen Eyes", consisting of the same countries as the Nine Eyes plus Germany, Belgium, Italy, Spain and Sweden.[41] The actual name of this group is SIGINT Seniors Europe (SSEUR) and its purpose is coord…

But of course. I wasn't denying anything of the sort. But you see - it's one thing for my country to do it, because if I suffer from it, I have legal ways to fight it. It's another thing entirely for a foreign government with so much power to do it, let alone a government that directly controls and that can subdue the biggest companies that operate on the Internet. Depending on the country, the NSA doesn't have enoug…

>But you see - it's one thing for my country to do it, because if I suffer from it, I have legal ways to fight it

Your country is giving the data to the US, without disclosure. Good luck fighting it.

Re: Russia Moves To Ban Online Services That Don’t Store Personal Data In Russia

#120

Post by BugBrother »

mark_l_watson wrote: post #117
BugBrother wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I ask one question to recognize astroturfing from the Putin junta: If you check the larger democracy indexes, they have started to show Russia as "authoritarian" now, i.e. not democratic at all. Is that a Western conspiracy?

Well define democracy. I have a good friend who is an Israeli citizen and he has been complaining for the 20 years I have known him that his country's politics are so warped by the people he calls 'the rich American assholes' (like AIPAC) who fund the right wing in Israel that sometimes his country does not seem to be such a good democracy. Imagine a whole lot of external money being injected into the politics of you…

Why should I define democracy, chemical entropy or anything else which I am not an expert on -- and lots of academics have put much time and energy into defining?

Look up democracy index and freedom index on wikipedia, which I referenced.

Russia has fallen a lot further on the central ones of those, as I wrote. I asked if that ALSO was a Western conspiracy, which the Russian media are full of.

The POINT was -- the paid Russian propagandists aren't allowed to write that. They mostly go away.

It seems the whole internet quality suffers, not only HN, from those Russian astroturf trolls in most languages.

(Israel is not only beside the point -- as I've heard it described, if you put three Israelis in a room you'll find at least four hard opinions on most any subject. :-) The same goes for the media. In general, democracies put under pressure from terrorism aren't pretty: By definition, terrorism scares the voters. That results in that the governments throw out the law books, because they want to get reelected. See Germany, USA, Italy, Israel, Britain, etc.)

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