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Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#111

Post by mbrock »

terranstyler wrote: post #109

It is not the duty of the lawmaker but of the contracting parties (= employer and employee) to define the amount of work hours per day. There are many variables in the process: - Demand for money of the employee (poor father of five vs. rich single) - Demand for work of the employer (company needs a helping hand vs company needs to recruit a new team) - Scale effect of product (does one additional hour or man lead to…

There are pretty severe network effects in place, though, as well as obvious imbalance of power (the wage worker is, almost by definition, relatively poor, indebted, etc). Working hours have always been a big part of labor politics. The individual contractual perspective is not the whole story.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#112

Post by furyg3 »

adventured wrote: post #86
bartkappenburg wrote: post #22

I'm Dutch and I work 4 days a week. My productivity in my startup is the same. This is what researchers say about our average number of hours per week: For example, Dutch workers are on par with American workers in terms of productivity per hour. They pay higher taxes and earn less than Americans. But on average, they work roughly 11 weeks less than their American counterparts each year, have access to government-fun…

The Dutch are also the most indebted people on earth: http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/factbook-2013-en/images/g... http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB1000142405297020375260... http://www.economist.com/blogs/charlemagne/2013/11/netherlan... Which means that as a country the people will have to either fall into bankruptcy, dramatically cut their quality of living, or work a lot more. All that leisure time came at…

Well... this is slightly disingenuous.

The WSJ article specifically mentions that this relates to secured debt (mortgages), not credit card debt. Interest rates are fully tax deductible in the Netherlands, which incentivizes higher mortgage debt than in many other countries. Many people own homes, and the ones that do borrow the majority of the market value when buying.

Housing prices did fall recently (and are now headed back up), but they did not tank as they did in the US. Similarly, the rules on mortgages were on the whole much stricter than in the US; this, combined with the relatively low unemployment rate, resulted in a foreclosure rate which is the lowest in Europe.

The housing market during the crisis, and to some extent now, looks a lot like people stuck in the place where they live. They can make the mortgage payments just fine, but their hopes of swapping that starter house for a larger one have been put on hold until either they build up more equity or the housing market improves.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#113

Post by vidarh »

Kiro wrote: post #95
vidarh wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When it was left up to business, we had 14 hour+ days. It took many decades of extensive strikes and demonstrations, during which dozens of workers were killed, before the 8 hour day became the norm. The US union that is now the AFL-CIO leadership in pushing for the 8 hour day led directly to making May 1st the international day for labor demonstrations, in part in commemoration of the Chicago Haymarket Massacre. If…

Do you hate capitalism?

Of course not - a well developed capitalism is a pre-requisite for socialism.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#114

Post by Cthulhu_ »

skrause wrote: post #7

If someone gave me the chance of a 30-hour work week, I would rather work 4 days of 7,5 hours than 5 days of 6 hours. Just the hassle of getting up early, dressing up for work, commuting etc. isn't really worth it when I'm only going to work 6 hours anyway. I'd rather take an extra day off.

Yeah, 3 day weekends are awesome. I had a 36-hour contract at my previous employer, which meant if I worked 8 hours a day I could take fridays off every two weeks.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#115

Post by Cthulhu_ »

jacquesm wrote: post #61
iamtew wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a fairly common thing here in the Netherlands actually, four day work week. Most of my colleagues I know who does this to have some extra time with their family/kids. Usually it's a split in the middle of the week or something, for example my manager doesn't work tuesday's, it's his "papadag" as he then spends time with his kids and don't have to send them off to day-care or get a nanny. Another colleague of…

That's not the whole story. For single parents going from 40 to 32 hours per week can be a net-neutral operation from a money perspective. The various tax breaks will increase with just about the same as your net salary drops. In rare cases you'll even end up with net a bit more than before. Going from 32 to 24 might still be the same, below that the balance shifts and you end up with less. I just ran the numbers wit…

So you're saying you earn the exact same net amount working 32 vs 40 hours?

brb talking to the boss.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#116

Post by mbrock »

symmetricsaurus wrote: post #107
pathy wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MP just decided to go into the election with a 35 hour work day proposal. I also believe V and F! are in support of a work hour reduction to varying degrees. So there is definitely a push to reduce the work day (Though possibly not to 6 hours).

Forgot about the recent (mp) proposal. Maybe there will be a new debate on the length of a work day/week in time for the election then.

It's been a long standing point on the MP party program, although perhaps an often neglected one.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#117

Post by Benji_San »

guard-of-terra wrote: post #100
justnotsure wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought you must have bigger houses? no? I mean how can you claim to have better standard of living and live happier life in a small house without any space?

It's always a tough choice between a huge house in sprawlville on one side of spectrum and a tiny apartment in the centre of the (non-urban-flighted, alive and walkable) city. And of course everything in between. You can't say that in "better standard of living", home size matters and home location doesn't. Europeans have less sprawl but smaller houses, that's just it.

It shouldn't really be a tough choice. The "suburbia" dream is flawed on so many levels that it isn't even funny. Yet people are clinging on to it like leeches because they've been told it will make them happy.

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#118

Post by claudius »

cabalamat wrote: post #81

A 6-hour workday would be 30 hours/week. If we're going to reduce the working week, then instead of spreading that over 5 days, why not work a 4-day week (7.5 hours/day)? That would reduce commuting congestion by 20%, and make everyone who doesn't like spending an hour a day in a traffic jam happy.

Why would you spend an hour a day in a traffic jam? Is there something wrong with your public transport system?

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#119

Post by jacquesm »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #115
jacquesm wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not the whole story. For single parents going from 40 to 32 hours per week can be a net-neutral operation from a money perspective. The various tax breaks will increase with just about the same as your net salary drops. In rare cases you'll even end up with net a bit more than before. Going from 32 to 24 might still be the same, below that the balance shifts and you end up with less. I just ran the numbers wit…

So you're saying you earn the exact same net amount working 32 vs 40 hours? brb talking to the boss.

As a single parent, in a country where you get subsidies for things like rent, child care, health insurance and so on, yes, it can work out like that. So what works for my employee would not work for me (because our social situation is different).

Re: Sweden’s proposed six-hour workday

#120

Post by mbrock »

dalek_cannes wrote: post #48
stdbrouw wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're basing your assessment of reasonableness on the aesthetically pleasing properties of symmetry? :-)

Not really. Eight hours for sleep covers almost everyone's biological requirements. It's hard to decide in what proportion to split the remaining 16. So split it 50-50 unless someone can propose something better!

That's a bafflingly unfounded and useless "suggestion!" Enormous amounts of people have been working 8 hour shifts for decades -- instead of just guessing that the status quo is probably optimal, why not ask a variety of people if they think two hours more of family/leisure/commute/exercise/learning time would be of any benefit?
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