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What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

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Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#111

Post by jellicle »

patrickg_zill wrote: post #99
jellicle wrote: post #79

So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross. I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's $70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have t…

It doesn't cost $70 per day to go 125 miles in a city. Otherwise my car with 59000 miles would have already costed me $33K in all expenses. It hasn't. Further, this is what the IRS allows you to DEDUCT. So his taxable income is reduced by the 56 cents per mile - to the extent that his costs are less than 56 cents per mile, he is making more due to the tax-advantaged nature. Also, at the end of the first year he can e…

You're not including the cost of the car. You should.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#112

Post by specialist »

lars512 wrote: post #55
vm wrote: post #7

"it feels really productive to take my kids to school and get paid to drive home" Drivers using Uber to fill free time or excess capacity is a radical shift away from how Uber started, with professional drivers using it to make a living. A friend of mine does this with Lyft. Imagine how many cars are on the road right now with only one driver and the rest of the seats empty. Lots of potential new drivers...

AirBnB for the road?

I wanted to buy a ZipCar/FlexCar fleet vehicle. Then any one (in network) could use it, helping me offset my capital expenses.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#113

Post by webmanoffesto »

jellicle wrote: post #79

So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross. I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's $70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have t…

Yes, the paltry wages earned by Uber drivers really disturbs me. So the job is "preferable" to working at McDonald's; except that if you deduct the cost of the car you may find you're better off at McDonald's. How did Uber become the super-hip high-tech story? By using technology to convert an (almost) middle-class wage job into roughly the equivalent of "fryolator operator" at McDonald's?

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#114

Post by walkersm »

jellicle wrote: post #79

So let's do the math. $21/hour for 7 hours, $150/day, gross. I found some estimates online that a taxi driver might drive about 150 miles per day. Let's say 125 since this was sort of a short day. The IRS mileage allowance is 56 cents per mile - this is supposed to be an "all-in" number that includes all of the costs of owning and operating a vehicle. So that's $70/day for vehicle costs which the operator will have t…

Well lets be honest here no Taxi driver has ever worked a 7 hour shift. Minimum is 12 and they often go more than that. They would go 20 if they were not regulated. Thanks to Uber they are not now. Many taxi drivers who switched over are turning in 16 hour shifts daily.

Better money for them?? Yes Safer for the traveling and waling public? Not so much.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#115

Post by walkersm »

MichaelGG wrote: post #28
Avitas wrote: post #2

I wonder what happens when his Tesla gets t-boned by a pickup truck, they guy speeds off and he has to claim it on his insurance. His insurance finds out he's driving for Uber and then...

Uber says they require proof of livery insurance. So in theory the driver should already be paying that $$$ a month and be covered.

Thats for Uber Black and SUV not UberX. They only check for proof of personal auto insurance on UberX. And they know that does not cover the driver in most instances. They knowingly send people out to do work on their system knowing they are committing insurance fraud.

Worst part is regulators seem to be letting them get away with it in many states, Not all.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#116

Post by walkersm »

seabird37 wrote: post #101
dnautics wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this, I drive drunk people on lyft almost exclusively, and I have a near 5-star rating.

it was only one night... so my data points are minimal compared to yours... you may be right (or you may be a better driver!) :)

John I a curious did you inform your insurance carrier what commercial activity you were participating in before you started?

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#117

Post by rdl »

seabird37 wrote: post #100
rdl wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd personally be annoyed if my UberX driver came in a Wrangler; one of the most uncomfortable-as-passenger cars on the market. A Camry or something is totally fine; doesn't have to be a Tesla, but should be something relatively quiet and comfortable.

It's a Jeep Wrangler Unlimited... it's nice. So most people actually say nice things when they enter the vehicle. But, clearly, it's not a Tesla either. A Camry, as you say, would be great.

Ah, yeah, that's a much nicer passenger vehicle. I keep wanting to drive for UberX a few hours/week just for fun (I like driving), but my A4 (B7) has a pretty small back seat, and getting the right auto insurance + umbrella + etc. would be a pain.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#118

Post by kosei »

cloudwalking wrote: post #30
kosei wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair here, unless you're driving a luxury car like a Tesla, your depreciation, gas and maintenance costs are still probably $5/hour or less. So, call it $16/hour, and it's still well above minimum wage and most living wages. You're adding extra danger due to potential crash concerns etc, but I don't really know how to best quantify that. http://commutesolutions.org/external/calc.html

Your assumptions may be incorrect. Here is an article that was on HN a couple months ago: http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-... According to Consumer Reports (see linked article), the median car costs about $9k per year for the first 5 years (including the sticker price). That comes out to $0.75 per mile--not an insignificant amount. Driving 30 miles per hour, that's $22.50 in costs.

I'm not sure how you can use a flat statistic like $9,100/year to own based on 12,000 miles per year driven, and then apply it to a Lyft driver. They could be driving 45,000 miles per year, in which case the $9,100 per year would go up, but it's not clear by how much. I would guess that there are large efficiencies there. There are another number of flaws with this logic:

1) Assumes that you only use your car for Uber/Lyft driving and that it is entirely valueless otherwise. If you were going to own a car anyway, you were going to eat a bunch of that cost to begin with. The extra costs are in the incremental mileage that you drive.

2) Assumes you are buying a brand new car, and uses averages for first 5 years. If you just start with a 1-year old car, that drops your average around 25% (from ~$9K to ~$7K).

3) Averages across a number of makes and models, including a number of luxury cars (pretty sure most people looking to earn $35/hour aren't in the market for Porches, Land Rovers and Mercedes Benz', all of which top out the scale being used in the consumer reports article). For example, a Toyota Camry would cost about $5,700/year to own for years 2-5 (http://autos.yahoo.com/toyota/camry/2013/l/cost.html), and around $7K/year for all first 5 years.

4) As stated earlier, assumes that a Lyft driver is just going 12,000 miles/year and that the rate $0.75/hour stays constant regardless of how many hours you drive in a year.

5) As far as I can tell, you can write off your expenses on your taxes, recouping part of the value as well (standard cost at 56 1/3 miles per gallon: http://www.irs.gov/publications/p463/ch04.html#en_US_2013_pu...).

Not quite sure how to evaluate, and it's very possible that I may have estimated on the lower end. But, the methodology used in that blog post linked is pretty visibly flawed in a number of ways. Now I've already given this more thought than I initially planned to, but you're right that I shouldn't have off-handedly thrown out $5/hour without investigation. That said, it bothers me that the blogger you referenced put out an entire article (that was referenced on HN) that used such poor reasoning and assumptions using misleading data. All of which to come up with a bolded "$3.45/hour!!!" conclusion. /rant

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#119

Post by cloudwalking »

kosei wrote: post #118
cloudwalking wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your assumptions may be incorrect. Here is an article that was on HN a couple months ago: http://brent-noorda.blogspot.com/2013/11/how-much-does-lyft-... According to Consumer Reports (see linked article), the median car costs about $9k per year for the first 5 years (including the sticker price). That comes out to $0.75 per mile--not an insignificant amount. Driving 30 miles per hour, that's $22.50 in costs.

I'm not sure how you can use a flat statistic like $9,100/year to own based on 12,000 miles per year driven, and then apply it to a Lyft driver. They could be driving 45,000 miles per year, in which case the $9,100 per year would go up, but it's not clear by how much. I would guess that there are large efficiencies there. There are another number of flaws with this logic: 1) Assumes that you only use your car for Ube…

Glad I checked back on this thread. This comment is very insightful.

Re: What happened when the CEO of a Boston burrito chain became an Uber driver

#120

Post by eru »

SomeCallMeTim wrote: post #104
marvin wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for your long reply. I think we are mostly in agreement. It seems like you are more cynical me, and I get the impression that you probably have less experience interacting with "the bottom percentile" (it's really the bottom 10-percentile) than me. I don't think this is surprising if you are truly better than 95% of all developers you work with - this places you in the elite of an elite group, and there is a v…

I believe you that those people exist. And I don't believe they should just starve to death. I'm equally unsure of how to help them aside from charity, given the current political climate. I would like to help them, but honestly charity is probably the least helpful of the options (if the only one available); I'm sure that no one likes to accept charity. I believe that everyone wants to feel useful, meaning that acce…

> (just look at the differences between neighborhoods that are primarily owned versus primarily rentals to see a very real example of this)

Rental works for nice neighbourhoods in Germany. But Germans tend to rent long term. That makes a difference.

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