How Long Have I Got Left? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#111

Post by aaronem » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:53 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #17

For a long time I've been pretty worried about my mortality. But ever since I became a Christian a couple years ago, I've been much more at peace about it. Not all the way (yet?), but much more than before. I highly recommend looking into Christianity to anyone else feeling that same fear.

Oh, good Lord! I made my previous comment to you before I noticed you'd thrown this rock at the hornets' nest. Good man! Not that bright, maybe, but with moral courage to spare, and that's a rare pleasure to run across in this degraded age.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#112

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:54 PM UTC

polysics wrote: post #104

sdegutis wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people have taken the route you've described, and their stories are usually the same. They finally found reason (maybe at 8 or 12) and realized all the "obvious, gaping holes and flaws" in Christianity. But very few people have gone from atheist to Nicene-creed-believing Christian in their adult life, which I did. This seems so backwards, don't you just wonder what their reasoning was? I do.

Of course I wonder which path you went through, it is the point of this discussion, and for all the rampant no-holds-barred religion bashing HN usually sees, this is still an above-average forum for this kind of discussion. I would really like to hear about that, with the only rule that neither of us should try and convince anyone else, and all we say is to be taken strictly personally. I will start by saying that I…

I was raised somewhere between theist and deist, with only the belief that there is some "God" and if you're good you go to Heaven, otherwise Hell. That was it. Before my digits were yet two, I started reasoning about all of this on my own, and came to my own conclusions on them, which were basically uninformed. In my teenage years, I experimented with atheism and settled on agnosticism.

Just a few years ago in my middle-adulthood, I turned to "God and Jesus" in a desperate attempt to keep sanity during really hard times (my wife and kids and I were in the brink of homelessness, with no job and almost no cash, 9000 miles away from home). I really believed it was a mental coping mechanism, but I didn't care at that point.

Our situation resolved, and I ended up returning back to my agnosticism. But existential panic attacks sent me searching more fervently for an answer. I reached out to a non-denominational (i.e. Protestant) pastor, telling him that I wanted to believe in Christianity, but I couldn't violate my integrity, knowing that it's incompatible with science and history.

He gave me a book called The Reason for God[1] which demonstrated that Christianity doesn't conflict with science, and that the Resurrection of Jesus is historically true and accurate as presented in the Gospels. When I finished reading it, I chose to become a Christian.

Eventually, as I kept researching different denominations, I settled on Catholicism as the most likely to be correct. For other Christians curious how I could come to that conclusion, I would recommend The Catholic Controversy[2] by St. Francis de Sales.

[1]: http://www.amazon.com/The-Reason-God-Belief-Skepticism/dp/15...

[2]: http://www.amazon.com/The-Catholic-Controversy-Defense-Faith...

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#113

Post by brosco45 » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:12 PM UTC

Alternative medicine is the only solution.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#114

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:12 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #39

kunai wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate to break it to you, but religion is just a ruse to help people come to grips with their mortalities. It's extremely unlikely beyond belief that there is any notion of heaven or hell in this universe. I don't want to start a religious war. I just don't want you to be let down when you're on your deathbed 30, 40, 50, 60 years from now.

Thanks for your sympathy. But I've done my homework. Jesus did actually rise from the dead. Research it and you'll come to the same conclusion. I don't have many books on it, but I'd probably start with Handbook of Catholic Apologetics[1] by Kreeft and Tacelli. [1]: http://www.amazon.com/Handbook-Catholic-Apologetics-Reasoned...

In retrospect, this comment does sound kind of rude, although I meant no harm. I shouldn't have posted it at 3am, but I can't delete it now. So all I can do is say "I'm sorry".

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#115

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:21 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #112

polysics wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I wonder which path you went through, it is the point of this discussion, and for all the rampant no-holds-barred religion bashing HN usually sees, this is still an above-average forum for this kind of discussion. I would really like to hear about that, with the only rule that neither of us should try and convince anyone else, and all we say is to be taken strictly personally. I will start by saying that I…

I was raised somewhere between theist and deist, with only the belief that there is some "God" and if you're good you go to Heaven, otherwise Hell. That was it. Before my digits were yet two, I started reasoning about all of this on my own, and came to my own conclusions on them, which were basically uninformed. In my teenage years, I experimented with atheism and settled on agnosticism. Just a few years ago in my mi…

How do you "experiment" with atheism? Just saying to yourself "I'm now an atheist" and seeing how that feels? It doesn't sound like you ever had solid rational and empirical reasons for choosing atheism, and indeed that is the only kind of atheist that I've ever heard of turning to the supernatural.

Atheists like me are atheists not because the quality of life it provides, but because there's no empirical evidence that there's any truth to any of the supernatural claims ever made. We understand that faith is a choice of last resort when no other evidence is available, and that faith is a really bad way to come to conclusions. Atheists like me understand our inherent biases, we seek to ask questions in a way that there can be a negative answer. There is no such negating answer to "what would convince me there is no god" and that alone, in the absence of any kind of empirical evidence for the existence of a supernatural entity, should be enough to not be a believer.

The truth is whatever the truth is, and I want to believe reality no matter how it makes me feel. If it feels good to believe in magical things that care about us but those magical things aren't real then I don't want to believe in them.

The litany of Tarski is useful:

If the box contains a diamond,

I desire to believe that the box contains a diamond;

If the box does not contain a diamond,

I desire to believe that the box does not contain a diamond;

Let me not become attached to beliefs I may not want.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#116

Post by vanderZwan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:28 PM UTC

thomasz wrote: post #73

vanderZwan wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And would you suggest doctors would take two to three extra hours with every patient to work them through a basic statistics class which still isn't sufficient to explain the concept?

Two to three extra hours is vastly exaggerated, and not that much time for someone who needs to know the chances of dying a horrible death. I might add that this is an objection based on economic argumentation, which, while not invalid, is not the one given by doctors. They argue like the author of the article did: That they know better than you how you will react to this kind of information, and that they can manage…

> I might add that this is an objection based on economic argumentation, which, while not invalid, is not the one given by doctors

If you think doctors don't have time for you for economic reasons, and not the fact that there are other patients out there, you really have no idea what doctors do all day.

> They argue like the author of the article did: That they know better than you how you will react to this kind of information, and that they can manage your morale by taking certain freedoms with the truth.

They have far more experience with people receiving this information than the person receiving it.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#117

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:31 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #115

sdegutis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised somewhere between theist and deist, with only the belief that there is some "God" and if you're good you go to Heaven, otherwise Hell. That was it. Before my digits were yet two, I started reasoning about all of this on my own, and came to my own conclusions on them, which were basically uninformed. In my teenage years, I experimented with atheism and settled on agnosticism. Just a few years ago in my mi…

How do you "experiment" with atheism? Just saying to yourself "I'm now an atheist" and seeing how that feels? It doesn't sound like you ever had solid rational and empirical reasons for choosing atheism, and indeed that is the only kind of atheist that I've ever heard of turning to the supernatural. Atheists like me are atheists not because the quality of life it provides, but because there's no empirical evidence th…

By "experiment" I mean I started questioning whether or not it was true, debating with my peers about it (either for or against).

I ultimately settled on agnosticism because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If there was a God who chose to never reveal (or even hint at) his existence to humanity, it would be incorrect for a person to be an atheist. Since that's a legitimate possibility, it makes more sense to be agnostic than atheist.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#118

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:34 PM UTC

belluchan wrote: post #115

sdegutis wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was raised somewhere between theist and deist, with only the belief that there is some "God" and if you're good you go to Heaven, otherwise Hell. That was it. Before my digits were yet two, I started reasoning about all of this on my own, and came to my own conclusions on them, which were basically uninformed. In my teenage years, I experimented with atheism and settled on agnosticism. Just a few years ago in my mi…

How do you "experiment" with atheism? Just saying to yourself "I'm now an atheist" and seeing how that feels? It doesn't sound like you ever had solid rational and empirical reasons for choosing atheism, and indeed that is the only kind of atheist that I've ever heard of turning to the supernatural. Atheists like me are atheists not because the quality of life it provides, but because there's no empirical evidence th…

I should also point out that, after my initial conversion to Christianity, "how I feel about it" is basically not a factor in what I believe.

There are many times when I felt miserable and strongly wished I wasn't a Christian anymore. But I couldn't just choose to disbelieve in something that my research had convinced me was objectively true.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#119

Post by belluchan » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:47 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #117

belluchan wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you "experiment" with atheism? Just saying to yourself "I'm now an atheist" and seeing how that feels? It doesn't sound like you ever had solid rational and empirical reasons for choosing atheism, and indeed that is the only kind of atheist that I've ever heard of turning to the supernatural. Atheists like me are atheists not because the quality of life it provides, but because there's no empirical evidence th…

By "experiment" I mean I started questioning whether or not it was true, debating with my peers about it (either for or against). I ultimately settled on agnosticism because absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. If there was a God who chose to never reveal (or even hint at) his existence to humanity, it would be incorrect for a person to be an atheist. Since that's a legitimate possibility, it makes more se…

So what evidence did you eventually find to turn to God if it's not a feelings/faith based thing?

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#120

Post by bladedtoys » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 4:49 PM UTC

thejteam wrote: post #90

thomasz wrote: post #63

> We never cite detailed statistics, and usually advise against Googling survival numbers, assuming the average patient doesn’t possess a nuanced understanding of statistics When I was at the receiving end of that talk, this attitude made me incredibly angry. They know exactly that we will look up those numbers, they are just too afraid to have a honest discussion with us. People make very bad decisions because those…

Many doctors also don't have a nuanced understanding of statistics. They can quote you the survival numbers you can read elsewhere and they can quote you other people's interpretation of them, but if you have a question that deviates from the literature they are familiar with they may not be able to provide additional interpretation. Do medical schools teach stats? I know a couple of doctors(General Practitioners) th…

If they get such classes, they sleep through them and have for decades.

There are studies (Eddy 1982; Gigerenzer and Hoffrage 1995) that show only a small percent of physicians understand even basic statistics.

Just Google same and you'll get a zillion links to freshman college homework discussing the problem.