How Long Have I Got Left? • Hacker News Board

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#101

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:10 PM UTC

polysics wrote: post #89

sdegutis wrote: post #17

For a long time I've been pretty worried about my mortality. But ever since I became a Christian a couple years ago, I've been much more at peace about it. Not all the way (yet?), but much more than before. I highly recommend looking into Christianity to anyone else feeling that same fear.

I have gone the exact opposite path, from a life pretty entrenched in Christianity, to skepticism, to a conclusion that led me towards hard atheism. I feel like I am sure there is no supernatural creator, and the only love we receive is from people. I now thank people for their good, not God, and get angry at them for their bad, not at Satan. Religion starts off by lifting your responsibilities, and that is the worst…

Many people have taken the route you've described, and their stories are usually the same. They finally found reason (maybe at 8 or 12) and realized all the "obvious, gaping holes and flaws" in Christianity.

But very few people have gone from atheist to Nicene-creed-believing Christian in their adult life, which I did. This seems so backwards, don't you just wonder what their reasoning was? I do.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#102

Post by kpmah » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:16 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #17

For a long time I've been pretty worried about my mortality. But ever since I became a Christian a couple years ago, I've been much more at peace about it. Not all the way (yet?), but much more than before. I highly recommend looking into Christianity to anyone else feeling that same fear.

Respectfully, I would instead recommend secular Buddhism and mindfulness for dealing with emotions related to your own mortality. I believe it to be a healthier alternative without the need for a belief in god, an afterlife, or any superstition.

I recommend the writing of Jon Kabat-Zinn and Stephen Batchelor.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#103

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:20 PM UTC

matwood wrote: post #99

300bps wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sorry, I was raised Christian and realized at 12 years old that it was complete bunk. How did I realize that? I read the bible. Literally every day. I read it cover to cover at least 15 times. It contains pearls of wisdom floating in a sea of nonsense. No rational person can read that book cover to cover and remain a Christian. Which is why Christians have bible study groups where they focus on John 3:16 and other pr…

I took the same path as you. Forced church when I was younger and then started questioning, and finally was asked not to come to Sunday school anymore. Because the bible says so is simply not an acceptable answer and that is what it all came down to. Today I usually just avoid religious conversations because most people are not aware that I have been there and done that, and I often know more about their religion tha…

Unfortunately you're right, there are many Christians who just like to argue and abuse their "religion" to get their confrontational needs met. There are also many Christians who don't really stand on solid ground in their faith.

But there are Christians out there who know what they're talking about, who know more about their religion than the enlightened ex-Christians and educated atheists do.

You've probably never met one. Most people haven't. Because they don't like to argue or confront people. And they don't force their views down people's throats. Most of the time, they just sit there quietly and pray for those non-believers who other Christians would insult or argue with. They usually only bring it up when they're asked to give account for the reason they have hope, and they do it with gentleness and respect.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#104

Post by polysics » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:27 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #101

polysics wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have gone the exact opposite path, from a life pretty entrenched in Christianity, to skepticism, to a conclusion that led me towards hard atheism. I feel like I am sure there is no supernatural creator, and the only love we receive is from people. I now thank people for their good, not God, and get angry at them for their bad, not at Satan. Religion starts off by lifting your responsibilities, and that is the worst…

Many people have taken the route you've described, and their stories are usually the same. They finally found reason (maybe at 8 or 12) and realized all the "obvious, gaping holes and flaws" in Christianity. But very few people have gone from atheist to Nicene-creed-believing Christian in their adult life, which I did. This seems so backwards, don't you just wonder what their reasoning was? I do.

Of course I wonder which path you went through, it is the point of this discussion, and for all the rampant no-holds-barred religion bashing HN usually sees, this is still an above-average forum for this kind of discussion.

I would really like to hear about that, with the only rule that neither of us should try and convince anyone else, and all we say is to be taken strictly personally.

I will start by saying that I actually went through the realization that I had no evidence or need for the supernatural about 1 year ago, at 35 and counting, after reading The God Delusion and then starting my own research path across philosophy, theology and science. I feel like I have reached a conclusion, albeit just a personal one.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#105

Post by sdegutis » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:30 PM UTC

kpmah wrote: post #102

sdegutis wrote: post #17

For a long time I've been pretty worried about my mortality. But ever since I became a Christian a couple years ago, I've been much more at peace about it. Not all the way (yet?), but much more than before. I highly recommend looking into Christianity to anyone else feeling that same fear.

Respectfully, I would instead recommend secular Buddhism and mindfulness for dealing with emotions related to your own mortality. I believe it to be a healthier alternative without the need for a belief in god, an afterlife, or any superstition. I recommend the writing of Jon Kabat-Zinn and Stephen Batchelor.

This approach of "pick what works best for you" only works if it's actually true. Christianity claims that it is objectively true, for all people, regardless of whether they believe it. So it's not like a Christian can just change to a religion that "fits" them better on a whim.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#106

Post by kpmah » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:41 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #105

kpmah wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully, I would instead recommend secular Buddhism and mindfulness for dealing with emotions related to your own mortality. I believe it to be a healthier alternative without the need for a belief in god, an afterlife, or any superstition. I recommend the writing of Jon Kabat-Zinn and Stephen Batchelor.

This approach of "pick what works best for you" only works if it's actually true. Christianity claims that it is objectively true, for all people, regardless of whether they believe it. So it's not like a Christian can just change to a religion that "fits" them better on a whim.

Secular Buddhism doesn't make any supernatural claims which means it's completely compatible with Christianity. That's why it also works for atheists.

Emphasis on the secular - traditional sects of Buddhism can have gods, reincarnation etc. It may be clearer to say mindfulness instead of Buddhism as that has religious connotations. It's medically recognised for handling stress.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#107

Post by aaronem » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:42 PM UTC

sdegutis wrote: post #16

nightski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logical person inside of me wants to say that there is no meaning to life. But of course, that is not how I feel.

The Christian in me wants to say "hey guys, I know what you mean, I've felt the same way, and I found a reasonable answer." But my experience reminds me that kind of conversation is futile.

The Christian in you is a good and honorable person; the Hacker News commenter in you knows that such behavior is never rewarded here unless it happens to line up with the HN zeitgeist, which has little patience with any sort of received wisdom that doesn't agree with its own.

I find this really quite marvelous. Who could imagine such a batch of soi-disant freethinkers, who all seem to feel the same need to carefully curate and circumscribe the thoughts they're willing to think?

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#108

Post by aaronem » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:45 PM UTC

_random_ wrote: post #70

nightski wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The logical person inside of me wants to say that there is no meaning to life. But of course, that is not how I feel.

The meaning of life is to never die. I hope we will reach this within next few generations. Dead have no choices.

> The meaning of life is to never die.

This seems like a difficult philosophy to live with. You will someday die; does your life thus have no meaning? Everyone ever born will eventually die; does human life as a whole thus have no meaning?

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#109

Post by aaronem » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:46 PM UTC

dack wrote: post #35

CreakyParrot wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offense, and it bothers me in almost any use, but the phrase "doing a startup" seems especially out of its depth in this context.

What's your preferred verb?

Why not just say "starting a business?" I've never seen what is so magically special about "startups" that they deserve to be regarded as inhabiting a separate, higher plane of their own, beyond and above ordinary entrepreneurship as the species has heretofore known it.

Re: How Long Have I Got Left?

#110

Post by jotm » Sat, Jan 25, 2014, 3:52 PM UTC

taylodl wrote: post #4

"I began to realize that coming face to face with my own mortality, in a sense, had changed both nothing and everything. Before my cancer was diagnosed, I knew that someday I would die, but I didn’t know when. After the diagnosis, I knew that someday I would die, but I didn’t know when." Within this passage lies the meaning of life.

More like "Before cancer, I knew I was going to die within a few decades (accidents excluded)" and "After the cancer, I knew I was going to die within a few months/years (miracles excluded"...