None of them could have got fired in Sweden. Do you think as an american that US should have stronger protection for the employer?
SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
111–120 of 605 posts
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#112Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next?" I'm not agreeing with anything Adria did, but the issue of being labeled as the "tattletale" probably plays a big part in most women's reluctance to report real harassment.
Whistleblower concerns are totally legit, but that assumes the whistleblower follows common-sense normal procedures (e.g., telling the event organizers in private, or even calling their boss). The learning point here is about the manner in which the alleged harassment was "reported" -- trumpeted to the entire world via social media with photos attached.
I completely agree, and we as a society need to learn how to live in a world where a single tweet by an semi-influential figure can cause such a shit storm. How liable are people for actions resulting from a tweet? If someone famous snaps a photo of you, calls you a pedofile, and throws it on Twitter, what are the consequences?
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#113I really wish that this whole thing could have ended amicably (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs [by the way, the guy who was fired has already publicly apologized]). It's too bad that sendgrid had to fire her, I would never wish that somebody had their livlihood taken from them like that, but her job was to be a developer evangelist, which is a job she isn't realistically capable of performing anymore. I wo…
> (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs). What, exactly, has she to apologize for? The people in question were speaking like they were in a frat house in direct contravention of a code of conduct they'd agreed to. They had the right to speak. And Adria had the right to tweet. If they didn't like being publicly outed for saying this stuff, guess what? All they had to do was shut their mouths. > What if I acciden…
Adria had no reason to publicly shame these two guys, that behavior is unacceptable. If she had a problem with their behavior, she should have reported it to the Pycon organizers directly and that should have ended it. None of this should have ever left Pycon.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
"I would feel really uncomfortable if I was in the same room as this person. What if I accidentally say something that she finds offensive? Am I next?" I'm not agreeing with anything Adria did, but the issue of being labeled as the "tattletale" probably plays a big part in most women's reluctance to report real harassment.
The problem is not at all that Ms. Richards is a "tattletale," i.e. that she reported a problem to PyCon. Nobody has a problem with that.
Right, it is 100% reasonable to be offended by conduct inappropriate for the event and to bring it to their attention.
To grossly abuse your power and demonize two individuals who do not have a forum in which to rebut your accusations -- not okay.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#115I feel that all the threats and horrible comments she received are disgusting. I didn't find their joke offensive. But thats irrelevant. She had a right to complain. But not by posting their picture on twitter. Posting that picture was a really rotten thing to do. Its an act of bullying. I can take a picture of anyone and they would have said whatever I put on the caption. And its up to them to prove to the internet…
She had a right to complain, but not like that, not with a smug attitude, the oddity of taking a photo of two guys having a private conversation (although she heard them, does not make it a open conversation). Those two guys could easily be and my partner making silly phallus jokes because we fucking like to. You have no right to be offended. Which is why KKK and Westboro has freedom of speech. What she did was beyon…
Everybody and anybody has a right to be offended by whatever they want.
I think you mean that the mere fact they are offended does not entitle them to some redress regarding whatever it was that offended them.
If you actually mean that people have no right to take displeasure in your actions, good luck with that.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#116One thing that I haven't seen anyone here comment on: so much for company loyalty.
Say or do something wrong and your company will not even remotely try to get your back. You will be dumped as soon as feasibly possible.
Both companies involved here are disgusting.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#117Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (perhaps with Adria apologizing to the devs). What, exactly, has she to apologize for? The people in question were speaking like they were in a frat house in direct contravention of a code of conduct they'd agreed to. They had the right to speak. And Adria had the right to tweet. If they didn't like being publicly outed for saying this stuff, guess what? All they had to do was shut their mouths. > What if I acciden…
Sigh. Can't everyone in question here be a jerk? We have two sexist/innapropriate developers; one stressed out evangelist who overreacted and innapropriately tweeted a photo; one employer who (apparently, there is STILL no evidence for this fact beyond the anonymous pastebin!) fired one of the first guys on questionable evidence; uncounted hordes of almost-exclusively-male internet users with crystal clear (yet routi…
> We have two sexist/innapropriate developers
Inappropriate yes, sexist no (a "dongle" private joke can hardly be construed as sexist, seriously).
> one employer who (apparently, there is STILL no evidence for this fact beyond the anonymous pastebin!) fired one of the first guys on questionable evidence
Apparently? A blog post from their CEO not evidence enough: http://blog.playhaven.com/addressing-pycon/? Also fired developer commented quite extensively on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/threads?id=mr-hank
> and another employer who fired the evangelist based on said freakout.
Probably less over the freakout and more over the DDOS they've been under since some of the "uncounted hordes" have decided the best response to mob justice was mob justice, SendGrid'd been unavailable for hours.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#118I wonder if you could re-create this whole debacle in 3 months with fake people; you could use your post-mortem to tell people that you faked them out and announce your startup PR firm.
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#119Although this would seem to be another knee-jerk, exaggerated reaction, and I personally believe that she shouldn't have been fired (and that the first guy shouldn't have been either), we should also consider the SendGrid CEO's position; his company is under attack, might fail, so getting rid of the person whom this attack is targeting seems like the obvious thing to do. I'm guessing that SendGrid will loose some oth…
It's possible (although unlikely) that this _is_ a suspension. "Tell the DDoS clowns that she's no longer employed there, they move on, after the Internet recovers from its non-linear response to this whole situation, reinstate her with a profuse apology to everyone." I'm not sure that's better than just muscling through the DDoS, but when you can't deliver service to your customers, some folks get creative.
I think that would make the company look even worse. Announcing they're going to fire someone then retracting that statement when things die down? Sounds childish and unprofessional (much like this whole situation).
Re: SendGrid Fires Company Evangelist After Twitter Fracas
#120In events like these I'm glad I'm living under protective labor laws and not in the US. That would have forced all parties involved to talk it out like grown-ups instead of resorting to terminating those involved. Now there is no kind of resolution, but two people are unemployed and two companies are damaged. Nice going.
Agreed. It always makes me shiver with how casually people are fired from their jobs in the US. Some aspects of US society still seem like the wild west to me. Not that where I live is perfect (Netherlands) but at least I know I'll get a fair chance.