Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

butyoureagirl.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 124 posts

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#111

Post by lazylizard »

adamnemecek wrote: post #79
ghurlman wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Standing up, taking pictures without hiding, engaging with staff in front of the guys causing the problem, and pointing them out is passive ? What, exactly, would you have her do to escape this passivity?

Passive aggressive behavior does not imply passivity. What would I have done? Well assuming that I'd give a shit, I'd probably talk to the guys directly. You know, "Hey guys, this is a professional conference, let's keep it professional". Again, that's assuming that they actually said something objectionable which I'm not sure they did.

yes! exactly. its like she's in class and some boys were exchanging dirty jokes behind her and she overheard. instead of turning around to tell them to shut up 'cos its annoying her or even just to 'shhhhhhh!' , she called the teacher over to report them and then posted on her blog/fb/twitter that she just got adrian/michael/david who were sitting behind her thrown out of class for exchanging dirty jokes. and felt like a hero doing it.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#112

Post by singleuse »

szc wrote: post #60
martypitt wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> The problem was directing a "suggestive" / "lewd" conversation at a 3rd Party with no active relationship. There is nothing in the source material that suggests that the conversation was directed at a 3rd party. Person A was having a conversation with Person B, and made a comment that Person C overheard and got offended at. The twitter conversation analogy fits perfectly. How is a joke about socks in pants less se…

Since you didn't say who A, B and C were I have to assume, A - person to the left B - person to the right C - Adria Yes, you have missed the distinction and the twitter "analogy" is false. Adria[C] (I've no idea who any of these people are) turned and spoke to the person to the far left [A] behind her - and it "involved forking the repo to continue development". Then, the "guy next to him" [B] .... um, the 3rd Person…

You're kinda right here, the twitter analogy is not quite the same, the PyCon incident involved a handful of people and spoken words while the twitter one is much much worse as it is made public to the whole internet and doesn't go away once written.

Apart from this significant difference, both are dick jokes and to me seems to be poking innocent fun but reveals a closed mindedness and double standard from Adria.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#113

Post by singleuse »

japhyr wrote: post #4
grannyg00se wrote: post #2

"What many of you don’t know is that wasn’t the first time that day I had to address this issue around harassment and gender." A few guys making idiotic jokes amongst themselves about forking and dongle size is now considered harassment? I can understand they were probably being annoying, but I'm having trouble seeing this as harassment.

The pycon people are aiming to build a conference where women don't have to deal with this stuff at all. It's a lofty goal, and I appreciate them for setting a high standard. Excusing little comments creates a culture where women have to put up with innuendo throughout the conference. I saw these people removed from the room, and it was done quite appropriately. (I did not hear anything directly.)

It seems the pycon staff acted appropriately, but Adria certainly did not, posting pictures online with this kind of comment is not okay and goes against pycon guidelines.

And to me this report seems arguably abusive in the first place, but taken as a whole it amounts to witch hunting and hurts everybody to the benefit of no one.

Now both PyCon, the python community, women in tech and people working towards a more women friendly tech conference have a bad image that's impossible to restore. All because one single person misinterpreted a comment and found a joke not funny, well done !

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#114

Post by singleuse »

zshprompt wrote: post #15

there is no excuse for saying stuff like that at a conference its just not appropriate. but posting their picture on the internet ... there is not any excuse for that either. its just plain wrong.

Heck! If I can't crack an innocent dick joke at my friend while attending a conference because others think it is inappropriate, I won't be attending any conference anymore.

Or would it make more sense to use IRC chat to talk to the person sitting next to me ?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#115

Post by singleuse »

argonaut wrote: post #99
king_jester wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A woman reacted by taking a creepshot of them A creepshot by definition is a sexualized photograph, this doesn't count. > publicly shaming them on Twitter Nothing wrong with this. > and getting them kicked out of the room without even trying to simply talk to them When a con attendee violates the rules and con staff wish to pull them aside, that is totally legit. And no, she was under no obligation to explain anyth…

It seems like you're being downvoted pretty heavily. Part of it probably has to do with the views you're expressing, but I think a big part of it is the manner in which you are expressing those views. The former is probably never going to change for you, but the latter could always be changed. > A creepshot by definition is a sexualized photograph, this doesn't count. I think your argument here is being overly dismis…

I wouldn't be surprise if the DoJ actually intended for Aaron Swartz to kill himself. The US government did this before with public right activists.

And I agree that without the twitter post of the picture with the accompanying accusing comment, there would have been no firing involved.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#116

Post by _b8r0 »

jjacobson wrote: post #68
georgebarnett wrote: post #7

Given that it would be trivial to turn around and ask them not to offend, I fail to see the benefit in publicly going after these guys after the fact. Mob justice doesn't allow the other party the ability to alter their behaviour (we don't know if asking would have worked) nor does it allow the other party to tell their side of the story. In addition, it has a habit of causing both sides to dig their heels in and oft…

Adria, and most women, are tired of asking people one by one not to offend. This is her asking everyone to think about what they say in public.

Well it's a good job that only a guy and his family's life were ruined, but thank goodness she didn't have to consider the implications of shaming the offenders by asking the two guys to stop violating her moral righteousness first.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#117

Post by CRConrad »

king_jester wrote: post #97
Camillo wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failure was not equally massive on all sides, though. Two guys made possibly juvenile jokes to each other while sitting in the audience at a conference. This was a minor failure of manners. A woman reacted by taking a creepshot of them, publicly shaming them on Twitter, and getting them kicked out of the room without even trying to simply talk to them. Even though she had also been making sexual jokes while at Py…

> A woman reacted by taking a creepshot of them A creepshot by definition is a sexualized photograph, this doesn't count. > publicly shaming them on Twitter Nothing wrong with this. > and getting them kicked out of the room without even trying to simply talk to them When a con attendee violates the rules and con staff wish to pull them aside, that is totally legit. And no, she was under no obligation to explain anyth…

"Women in tech are not asking for others to protect them, but rather that policies be made and enforced that allow them to participate like any other attendee of the con."

But that assumes women are unable to participate unless they are... well, _protected_ from ever hearing sexual jokes.

No, you may be right that most women perhaps aren't actually asking to be so protected, but some apparently are, and it is their wishes that are being heeded.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#118

Post by CRConrad »

dodyg wrote: post #44
monitron wrote: post #6

I am missing something here. I get that someone could be offended by these comments, but what does it have to do with being a woman? I know females who would giggle at such jokes and males who would feel uncomfortable. I feel like the person here being the most sexist is the author, for insinuating that there's something inherent in her gender that makes "forking" jokes offensive to her. I would welcome an explanatio…

There is huge difference between sexual jokes being made among friends and the ones being made by strangers in a professional environment. The latter makes the environment hostile to women. This is not specific to women. You can apply this to minorities (of any shape or form) as well.

"The latter makes the environment hostile to women. This is not specific to women." Uuh... You don't see the self-contradiction there?

Women are just as much sexual beings as men, so why should any talk about sex necessarily "make the environment hostile" to women but not men?!? That could only happen if there were some cultural norm that everyone should pretend that women are actually _not_ just as sexual as men, and then the problem would be _this hypocritical norm_, not the jokes. (Which, as several posters have already pointed out, seems to be exactly the case with US society.)

Actually, come to think of it, a policy to shield women from sexual jokes, in stead of one to encourage them to _make_ sexual jokes themselves, will of course only work to perpetuate this status quo, to reinforce the oppressive norm that "women are poor weak little asexual creatures, whose innocent little rosebud ears must be protected by chivalrous society form ever, ever hearing any innuendo"... THAT is the real sexual oppression here: This stupid policy is in fact _extending_ the (US medieval-style) status quo.

The real feminists here were the dongle-jokers.

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#119

Post by CRConrad »

canadev wrote: post #37

My 2c: - The conference organizers set a very inclusive mandate that was, perhaps unwittingly, violated. - The blog post author was justified in using social media to alert the organizers that their mandate was being violated, but this probably could have been done privately with a similar effect. - It is extremely unfortunate that the violator's employers fired him. That is a big overreaction on the employer's part.…

"I think that this is not about political correctness but about fostering an environment that allows everyone to feel comfortable."

Yeah, because an environment where you absolutely dare not make any jokes at all -- "if you wouldn't say it in a court room...", as some other poster said in all apparent sincerity -- sure is going to feel heckuva comfortable to absloutely everyone.

Or, hey, waitaminnit...?

Re: Forking and Dongle Jokes Don't Belong At Tech Conferences

#120

Post by nikisweeting »

psionski wrote: post #94
ben0x539 wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Now everyone is gonna "watch out" when they meet a woman, no, only creepy nerds will have to.

Penis jokes are creepy? o.O

No, but as the readers of a site called 'Hacker' News we're bound to be called "creepy nerds" every now and again.
Post reply on HN