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Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

johannakoll.posterous.com

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Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#111

Post by coldtea »

coldtea wrote: post #71
dasil003 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or because it makes them uncomfortable. But in any case, yes, it's true you can make a joke about anything. George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. George Carlin was also one of the most brilliant comedians ever to live so he could pull it off. The simple fact is that "jokes" which reinforce current power structure are not good jokes. As a man you don't get to decide how women should feel about scantily…

> George Carlin famously proved this with a rape joke. Famously? People have been making jokes about farse worse matters than rape for millenia. From war, to incurable illness, to genocide, to torture, to the plague, everything has been made into the subject of a joke. It might be a novel concept for a prudish, politically correct section society, but it's historically true.

>What does fame have to do with novelty?

Nothing. It has to do with the "proved" part. Something known to be true man for millennia does not get "proved".

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#112

Post by 9392732 »

vannevar wrote: post #101
coldtea wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. Then maybe try to fix that instead of complaining about bikin…

Would anyone raise even an eyebrow if a woman sliped a sexy male model photo in a slide? The context is not symmetrical. Men have not been historically discriminated against in the workplace on the same massive scale that women have.

Make it a black male then

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#114

Post by str8gk »

rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

women get pregnant

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#115

Post by TeeDub »

Maybe our community has more wide-reaching problems that could also be addressed? Sexist humor strikes me as coming from the same general jackassery that made people mock Heather Arthur's Replace project. I don't think we, as computer scientists /engineers /hackers/etc, have cultivated a positive environment for collaboration or communication... We have plenty of toxic tendencies that should be addressed. (sexism then being one of many things.)

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#116

Post by Camillo »

rmc wrote: post #4

For those who think it doesn't matter, and that there is no sexism and that women aren't be discriminated against due to the pure fact of their gender, be aware that there have been double blinded scientific studies that show that if you change the name of a CV/resume to a female name when applying for science jobs, they don't get as much/as good offers. If this was question about whether a new drug worked or not, th…

Playing devil's advocate here: that shows that scientists take gender into account when making job offers to students, but it begs the question as to whether doing so is unfairly discriminatory. It's possible that CV+gender is a better predictor of future job performance than CV alone (for example, if female applicants are exceedingly good at writing CVs specifically).

Notably, the effect of the faculty participant's gender was not significant, so the study did not show men discriminating against women, but both men and women taking gender into account.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#117

Post by fab13n »

[this is a tentative explanation, no judgment, neither justification nor condemnation]

My impression, as a male who's evolved in several macho environments including high tech, is that the grossest sexist jokes are about males' frustration with gender imbalance, rather than against women.

What makes a joke funny? The fact that it's intellectually engaging, or wildly surprising, or that it discharges an existing yet unspeakable tension. 95% of sexist jokes are neither of the two former. The "fun" in sexist jokes shared among brogrammers is that the group rolls itself into the most degrading mediocrity engendered by a frustrated-males-only-attendance, with nobody lecturing them that they ought to behave better, what with their over-education, supposedly progressive social views, genuine interest for the opposite sex etc.

To take just one example in the comments here, "We are hiring fashion interns" with underwear girl pictures is simply not funny: no intellectual stimulation, nothing comic nor original here. And it's neither about women (models or professionals) nor about underwear. It's about the crippling level of frustration admitted by making such a lame joke, and by laughing at it.

My empirical observation is that when a few women join a male professional setup, sexists jokes quickly vanish, not because people don't dare cracking them, but because they don't feel the need to tell them anymore (IMMV). It nevertheless remains half of a vicious circle keeping women out of some career paths, to the detriment of both genders.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#118

Post by sp332 »

jseliger wrote: post #83

>A talk at a conference showing girls in bikinis. An API presentation from a sponsor featuring ladies in bras. A demo at a hack day with a slide of women in underwear. A business model canvas workshop using a strip club as an example to illustrate the tool. These are just a few examples of casual sexism I've experience at (tech) events. Where does sexy end and sexism begin? I too am against sexism (who isn't?), but m…

In the examples you gave, there are 2 problems: 1. It reduces women to nothing more than sex objects. Sex isn't just part of the job, but the women's whole reason for being included. 2. Women (and men!) feel like control over their sexuality is being taken away. When a presenter puts up a slide of a stripper, some of the audience will feel uncomfortable just because their sexuality was invoked without their consent.

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#119

Post by coldtea »

hackerkira wrote: post #98
coldtea wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Political correctness" is often a buzzword used to dismiss people who want to discuss this. Other, better, words exist. "Politeness" is one. "Freedom of expression" is another, though.

I never understood why "political correctness" has to be political. Almost all of the words that aren't PC, are must more entrenched in the social, societal sphere than in politics. If a politician says something non-PC, they get in much more trouble than a lay person. A person who is an expert at being PC...will probably succeed as a politician, tip-toeing strategic thinker...

>I never understood why "political correctness" has to be political. Almost all of the words that aren't PC, are must more entrenched in the social, societal sphere than in politics.

It's not about "politics" as in the narrow sphere of political affairs (democrats, republicans, voting etc).

It's about "political" in the wider sense (that is "trying to be tactful", not to annoy various sides, etc).

Re: Sexism is not funny, let's stop laughing

#120

Post by str8gk »

theorique wrote: post #54
bigsassy wrote: post #43

We see these kind of stories on Hacker News kinda regularly. And you'd think that it's getting a little ridiculous. But time and again, we still have people in our community that just don't get it. So that's why I upvoted this article. Let's all keep drilling this into our community until it finally sticks.

drilling this into our community I see what you did there.

hahahahahahha
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