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My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

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Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#111

Post by orwin »

pyuser583 wrote: post #48

I’ve been through this situation with family members. I understand the frustration and agony. I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. I’m not aware of any country that makes such a thing available on short notice like this. I also understand th…

> I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.”

> In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay.

In France, 80% is paid by the public healthcare if a psychiatrist greenlit you, which still make you liable for ~30€ per day in a room you share with another patient (and if you want a private room it's ~90€/day out of pocket) (maybe the prices around Paris are a bit higher though, i'm a country boy)

[edit] more accurate numbers, i had to check and correct them. Also, 30€ per day also covers medication if needed and a spa session

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#112

Post by andrewinardeer »

rayiner wrote: post #70
pyuser583 wrote: post #48

I’ve been through this situation with family members. I understand the frustration and agony. I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. I’m not aware of any country that makes such a thing available on short notice like this. I also understand th…

It sounds like this guy needed around-the-clock, in-patient care. That's inherently expensive. While those facilities exist in countries with publicly funded healthcare, there's a huge shortage of in-patient beds, so there is some mechanism to funnel patients to outpatient care.

My state has the beds available, but no staff.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#113

Post by orwin »

rayiner wrote: post #70
pyuser583 wrote: post #48

I’ve been through this situation with family members. I understand the frustration and agony. I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. I’m not aware of any country that makes such a thing available on short notice like this. I also understand th…

It sounds like this guy needed around-the-clock, in-patient care. That's inherently expensive. While those facilities exist in countries with publicly funded healthcare, there's a huge shortage of in-patient beds, so there is some mechanism to funnel patients to outpatient care.

For psychological care it isn't that bad. Probably because people will first get on anxiousness/depression pills, and convince themselve they are ok.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#114

Post by tracker1 »

ButlerianJihad wrote: post #100
tracker1 wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The collection laws also vary from state to state on this... in some states, medical collections are all but toothless, short of actually filing a lawsuit, which isn't likely, except some facilities actually have staff lawyers willing to harass and sue.

Well, you can try for sure to default on medical debts without suffering a hit to your credit, but goood luck obtaining future care from any provider that you’ve stiffed. How many big medical systems/districts in your region can you run up a balance until none will serve you, except through the E.D.?

I have an 18yo bill for a medical lab, and I still get my regular bloodwork there... It gets brought up now and then on current visits, and I just say, "I'm not paying that bill."

As to the why, it's because I switched jobs and got my regular labs done and apparently was between coverage that week... they tried to charge me a large multiple of what they charged insurance for the same labs, so I refused to pay.

I also had several bills that were never paid from a week long hospital stay in my mid 30's... Most of them got paid if they'd agree to reasonable payments or settle for lower amounts when I had the money (tax return time, bonus, side work). After 7 years, they were all off my credit and I stopped bothering...

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#115

Post by ceejayoz »

rayiner wrote: post #106
ceejayoz wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you trust Gemini to do that?

Because LLMs are pretty good at summarizing facts from publicly available sources.

LLMs are notoriously good at getting even basic facts wrong.

Especially when the information ecosystem around the issue is... adversarial.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#116

Post by arjie »

andrewinardeer wrote: post #112
rayiner wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It sounds like this guy needed around-the-clock, in-patient care. That's inherently expensive. While those facilities exist in countries with publicly funded healthcare, there's a huge shortage of in-patient beds, so there is some mechanism to funnel patients to outpatient care.

My state has the beds available, but no staff.

Usually beds in this context is a staffed operational bed. I was curious why they were complaining about beds back in the COVID era and looked into it. It means the physical object, the nursing staff, required clinician hours. They use the term “physical beds” in the rare contexts where those are significant.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#117

Post by arjie »

orwin wrote: post #111
pyuser583 wrote: post #48

I’ve been through this situation with family members. I understand the frustration and agony. I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. I’m not aware of any country that makes such a thing available on short notice like this. I also understand th…

> I also understand the hesitancy to pay for two months at a “retreat-like inpatient psychiatric facility.” > In publicly funded system, it’s likely facilities like this would not exist or would be strictly private pay. In France, 80% is paid by the public healthcare if a psychiatrist greenlit you, which still make you liable for ~30€ per day in a room you share with another patient (and if you want a private room it…

The trade-off appears to be[0]:

> Le délai d’attente d’un lit disponible est en moyenne de 3 à 4 semaines

3 to 4 weeks vs. the next morning in the article. Interesting. I wonder what would have happened in the intervening weeks.

0: https://clinique-du-parc.ramsaysante.fr/vous-%C3%AAtes-patie...

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#118

Post by mothballed »

Lalabadie wrote: post #110
mvdtnz wrote: post #44

Anyone who moans about the state of healthcare in USA should be required to reveal their voting habits. Collectively, America gets the healthcare system it desires, and deserves.

I've said a similar sentence on here in the past, but there's a large anti-tax sentiment in the US because their government is one of the most inefficient per dollar. People are against paying for nothing, not against paying for services. There's just no confidence that the amount of services rendered can change away from "as little as they can get away with", so there's no enthusiasm for paying at all.

The government is very efficient at redistributing your SS money from young broke workers to old more well off SS recipients. And at converting $ into guided missiles that blow up Iranian girls' schools. It's just that it's not practically possible to have "representatives" that actually represent the people in muh democracy in USA. See the massive unprecedent money that got poured in to make Massie lose his primary when he acted against the interest of Israel and to expose pedophiles in power.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#119

Post by arjie »

JohnFen wrote: post #36
EvanAnderson wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you have enough money for that gamble to pay off over the long haul the cost of health insurance would be immaterial to you anyway. You might get away with it in your youth, or you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. You're often able to negotiate discounts for cash payment from providers, but back when I had insurance that excluded a pre-existing condition I ran into providers who stead…

> you might have a catastrophic loss and have your finances wrecked. If you have health insurance (in the US) and you have a catastrophic event, your finances are going to be totally wrecked anyway. You're likely to have to declare bankruptcy unless you are pretty wealthy. At least, that's how it's gone with every friend and family member of mine that had to navigate such an event. That's on top of the painful nightm…

I had a catastrophic event and it was not particularly wrecking to my finances. Judge for yourself: https://wiki.roshangeorge.dev/w/Motorcycle_Accident

I had quite a few not-bills of the sort you see there totaling more than a few hundred thousand. Insurance coverage did work in my case.

Re: My husbands suicide shows theres something very wrong with US insurance industry

#120

Post by rayiner »

ceejayoz wrote: post #115
rayiner wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because LLMs are pretty good at summarizing facts from publicly available sources.

LLMs are notoriously good at getting even basic facts wrong. Especially when the information ecosystem around the issue is... adversarial.

Source? In my experience, LLMs are especially valuable in that setting. Human generated content tries to put a spin on facts. But with LLMs, you can pull the facts out of such content while making your assumptions explicit.

For example, I could point you to this article talking about 12 month+ waiting lists for UK mental health treatment: https://www.rethink.org/news-and-stories/news-and-views/2025.... What is the organization’s spin? Am I cherry picking this article in comparison to others? I don’t know!

It seems like there’s a big advantage to an LLM synthesizing a result from a large corpus of articles that contain facts embedded within spin and narrative.

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